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Participant

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2

120/240V split-phase U.S. Machine for use in 220 volt single phase country

01/20/2008 1:23 PM

I have a U.S. manfactured machine that plugs into the standard NEMA 14-50 stove outlet using 120/240 split-phase power (i.e., 4-wire including L1, L2, mid-point neutral and separate ground). For the purposes of discussion, this equipment includes a motor, heating coils, and some electronics. It requires up to 12,000 watts of power (120 Volts at 50 Amps multipled by 2 for the two lines). The machine will use some line to neutral current and thus the neutral is needed to operate the machine.

I am transporting this machine to the Philippines which uses 220-230 Volt, 60 HZ, single phase (usually two lines, no neutral). I have seen NEMA 10-50 outlets in some places in the Philippines for stoves/dryers, but I do not think that they are using split phase power. How do I obtain the neutral connection?

I would appreciate any solutions to how to get the eletrical power configured for the machine to run in the Philippines. My first inclination is to buy a 1:1 transformer with a center tap (for neutral), but is this common? And for the 12,000 watt, is this feasible? If not a transformer, what other solutions are there?

link to power supply company:
http://www.meralco.com.ph/Corporate/services/dis_distrisys_ps.htm

By the way, I have read all the static posted on other threads with respect to buying equipment in a country to be used in that country. However, this equipment is not manufactured in the Philippines nor am I going to wait for this to happen. I would appreciate creative solutions.

Regards,

Oscar

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Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 252
Good Answers: 6
#1

Re: 120/240V split-phase U.S. Machine for use in 220 volt single phase country

01/20/2008 8:32 PM

I believe the transformer is the most feasible solution.
1:1 transformers are used routinely in industrial applications purely for isolation purposes.

Federal Pacific list lighting transformers well above 12000 watts, in a nema 1 enclosure.

Try this link http://www.federalpacific.com/

There is no direct link to their tech sheets so you need to click literature on left side, then 'dry type' then "600V class"

Hammond is another good supplier.

I know this does not satisfy your 'creative' requirement, but I am confident that others will take care of that shortly.

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Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 86
Good Answers: 2
#2

Re: 120/240V split-phase U.S. Machine for use in 220 volt single phase country

01/20/2008 8:46 PM

To help we need to know if the heavy loads are actually across the 240v supply,or if they are split across the two legs and neutral,and exactly what size the loads are,i.e motors,heaters,etc.

If the heavy loads are on 240v,i.e.across L1,L2 with no neutral connection,and they can easily be separated from the 120v loads which I am presuming are small loads, you can power the 240v loads direct from the supply.You need a savvy electrician to help you with this.

You will then need a small transformer to supply the electronics etc with 120v.

Alternatively an autotransformer for 240v 15kva (this only has one winding) with tap at midpoint would give you the same supply as the US one.I'm not sure of prices but probably $1000-$1500. The 15 kva assumes a small amount of non resistive power,and that the motor is small,or extra will be needed for starting.

I'm not familiar with NEMA practice since you went to European voltages in a strange way,but if nothing else this will encourage others to rubbish the suggestions and offer better ones!

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Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 178
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#3

Re: 120/240V split-phase U.S. Machine for use in 220 volt single phase country

01/21/2008 6:20 AM

WARNING: Following is opinion not fact!

I believe all the heating elements (i.e. large current draw) is from L1 to L2 and that the neutral connection is to provide 120V for the control circuitry, the LED temp indicator and such. If this could be verified on your particular machine it may be just a matter of getting a 120V transformer to power the control circuitry. An isolated transformer that could be connected between the appropriate hot leg and neutral to provide the required control power might just do the trick.

Shawn

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Commentator

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
#4

Re: 120/240V split-phase U.S. Machine for use in 220 volt single phase country

01/21/2008 8:54 AM

Hi Osacar. I agree with shawn. You can dissect your equipment and try to drive seperate power sullies for your syste.

I'm from Philippines. We do not have a standard ground line here. Probably the usual sockets you see ( 3 points) are simply single phase. They only use the 3 receptacles bacause the electrical unit/load comes with 3. The 3rd one is suppose to be ground. And even then, most electricians here never installed a grounding wire. Tsk tsk. Sad to say. No neutral wire here. I suggest you acquire the transformers here in Phil for lesser hassles of warranty and adoptability in our electrical system.

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Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chicago, IL, USSA
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#5

Re: 120/240V split-phase U.S. Machine for use in 220 volt single phase country

01/21/2008 9:45 AM

Hi Oscar,

I would recommend a 15 to 25kva single phase isolation transformer to create a nuetral a 15kva transformer will limit you to 62.5amps if you going to exceed that then use a 25kva transformer. Transformer that size will have taps so you can go in with 218 and come out with 240/120.

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#6

Re: 120/240V split-phase U.S. Machine for use in 220 volt single phase country

01/21/2008 6:13 PM

Try reading the 120vac & 220vac thread lower down the "all threads page"

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Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hartwell Georgia N34* 56.770 / W83* 35.431
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#7

Re: 120/240V split-phase U.S. Machine for use in 220 volt single phase country

01/21/2008 6:56 PM

An American example: Run service lateral wires to side of building, drip loops, into weather-head, down "sized' conduit to meter base. Meter base wires go to fused disconnect. Disconnect feeds transformer which feeds breaker panel. Drive ground rod. Sized two pole breaker feeds equipment. Single pole breakers can feed 120 VAC circuits if needed. This is bullet format. Many small details. Good Filipino electrician can handle the installation. Stationed there, wife Filipino. No problem. Don't loose sleep. Enjoy the slower lifestyle.

James

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" adapt, improvise, overcome "
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Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Eastern Kansas USA
Posts: 1503
Good Answers: 128
#8

Re: 120/240V split-phase U.S. Machine for use in 220 volt single phase country

01/22/2008 2:42 AM

Oscar456,

If time is a problem and you want the simplest approach, then the 15-kVA isolation transformer approach mentioned by others will be the quickest fix. You trade time for cost.

If you have some time, the machine should have a wiring diagram with it, which shows exactly which loads are L1-L2 and which loads are L1-N or L2-N. I suspect that the heating element(s) are L1-L2. The motor may be either way, but many of them are dual-voltage (the motor nameplate will give this information. The electronics are probably L1-N or L2-N, but if a control transformer is being used, it may have a dual-voltage primary. Using a smaller transformer just for the Line-Neutral loads will have a lower cost, but is not as simple as the first option.

Reconnecting the internal components for L1-L2 operation may be possible. Otherwise, if you don't want to add any transformer, you may need to replace some components. Depending on how many components you have to reconnect or replace, this may be the lowest cost approach.

Whatever you do, please make sure that you document any internal changes to the machine's wiring.

--JMM

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Participant

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2
#9

Re: 120/240V split-phase U.S. Machine for use in 220 volt single phase country

01/22/2008 10:26 PM

Thank you all for the great suggestions!! I will contact a local electrician there to examine the option to wire the L1-L2 to the 220 VAC outlet and use a 220-to-110V transformer for the Line-Neutral connection. Based on how long that might take I will make a decision about whether to have the custom configuration done or just spend the money and purchase a 15kva transformer. Thanks again!


Regards,

Oscar


PS I will update this thread with the final config.

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Commentator

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
#10

Re: 120/240V split-phase U.S. Machine for use in 220 volt single phase country

02/27/2008 6:54 AM

Any updates? I might be able to help you since i'm from P.I.

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