I think Hari has expressed it well.

I'll try to give my views.

Closing the loop.

Designing & implementing efficent total systems.

Do all the inputs yield usable outputs of the highest value possible? The value being measured in social & economic terms.

Are the inputs obtainable & renewable?

Does the harvesting of the inputs, cause economic or social damage that cannot be mitigated or turned into a positive ?

Are the outputs needed & useful?

Hi garth

Aptly put! "Closing the loop"

Yes! Essentially this is Recycling.

It is felt that we need to "expand" on the definition, which (as presented here) has certain specific connotations, which are to be discussed and debated:

(a) "utilizing available resources and converting those into the material demands of the society"

(b) "the effects of Time-Entropy on the results and their implications to the environment"

(c) "optimizing the use of renewable resources leading to the reduction of "competitive conflicts"

(NOTE: We shall openly discuss and clearly work out, through exemplified analyses, every one of these statements, as we progress in this thread)

Item (a) pertains to the question garth had asked: "Are the outputs needed & useful?"

Item (b) is referred to by garth using two questions: "Do all the inputs yield usable outputs of the highest value possible? The value being measured in social & economic terms." ... "Does the harvesting of the inputs, cause economic or social damage that cannot be mitigated or turned into a positive ?"

Item (c) is being referred to through the question: "Are the inputs obtainable & renewable?"

Now the questions are"

1. Is the Definition of Sustainability Engineering that is presented here universally acceptable? If not, what corrections or modifications are needed?

2. Once the Definition is arrived at and "finalized", how do we codify and systematize the various parameters of engineering within the realms of Sustainability Engineering.

Please note: It is NOT claimed that we are the first ones to think and act on the ideas and activities of Sustainability Engineering. There are many good definitions and excellent works being done by various Institutions and Universities. But the writer is NOT happy with most of those, which attempt to be more of "also ran" types than being ORIGINAL

It is felt that CR4 has enough "brain power" that needs to be kindled to bring forth more Innovative and Universally acceptable definition, Codification and Systematization

Once again, it is appealed to the honorable, dynamic, "bright and highly experienced Members of CR4 to come forward and take part in this discussions without inhibitions, so that we could arrive at certain broad material (knowledge) inputs for the world.

Best wishes

pvhramani

Closing the loop as it relates to basic industrial processes.

I'll use biodiesel as an example.

1]Gather used vegetable [fryer] oil UVO.

2]Convert into biodiesel

3]Convert the glycerol byproduct into alcohol for use in step #2

Step #2 can have various improvements relating to the amount of energy used. Low tech solar collectors can be used to preheat the oil for the initial conversion process. The residual heat from conversion can be removed & used to preheat the separated biodiesel [separation takes 48 or more hrs] to aid in the removal of the excess alcohol before final filtering.

Engineering an efficent process to reuse the heat as much as possible would have to be balanced against the cost of the heat exchangers. Maybe a simple solution like a black tank in the sun in conjunction with an insulated tank.

Another cost effective solution would be using plastic drip tubing for a couple of years & then use it for irrigation & then shredding it to improve the efficency of a digester. 1 product used 3 times instead of just for 1 growing season.

How do we conserve every resource by utilizing it as fully as possible! The days of cheap energy are fading. We can substitute brainpower for horsepower!

The following article: GUIDELINES for design sustainability

http://www.matbase.com/guidelines.html

... could be the starting point for our Definition, Codes and Systematization. These could be practically applied in the various Designs that we plan in our systems that are involved in APIX-SEP

As a first step, it is planned to design the various plant and machinery (as well as the processes) in the Initial Pilot Plant that is currently being planned to convert Agro-renewables and regenerative vegetation systems into value added engineered products.

pvhramani

Hi friends

One of the "other" reasons to evoke this "Definition" discussion is the observation that there seems to be an apparent "lobby", which appears to "control" the way Sustainability programs are taken up the world over.

Look at this example of a Biomass project that had recently been Commissioned in a place close to where this writer lives in India:

Biomass Project

It is a bit amusing that a project that looks at creating "CO2 reduction" by way of Biomass electricity generation, DOES NOT take into account the Pollution-effects and other degradations generated by the materials usage and Process system designs.

Look at these facts:

@ The Electric Power systems being Built have ranges of 250 KWe and 500 KWe generation

@ The total project cost per 0.5 MWe generation system is of the order of US $8 million

@ An observation of the Process systems would show that the Steel structures alone could be not less than 20 tons (what quantity of energy and "degradations"?)

@ If, as is being planned, more such projects are to be set up, a total of 100 such units could "gulp" not less than 2000 tons steel for structures and other works!

Are these what we could define as Sustainable to reduce Fossil usage/ CO2 and other energy gulping systems?

In the light of these facts, CR4 engineers NEED to think and re-engineer not only the definitions and codes, but we also need to reconsider what is now being presented as Sustainable systems

pvhramani