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ASME U2 stamp

04/11/2008 10:58 AM

We would like to apply ASME Sec-VIII, Div-2, 2007 Ed., for the construction of some of the major critical equipments to our recent project to reduce the material cost. Our end user do not want any code stamping either U or U2 or NBR. Is Div-2 alllows user to apply design principles without code stamping ?. Do we need to prepare UDS?

Please pass on your comments...

Regards

KV

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#1

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/11/2008 12:38 PM

What your trying to accomplish is not real clear. In most cases, a manufacturer produces a product, such as a boiler or heat exchanger and asks an insurance company to insure them against liability should the product fail. The insurance company would then require the manufacturer to apply ASME Sec-VIII to qualify for insurance.

This whole Sec. VIII started back in the day of the old steam engine locomotive. When they were held together with rivets. They often blew up, killing people. So, the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) came up with a manufacturing method that prevented these engines from blowing up.

Well, that's how the standard was developed. There are no laws that say you must or must not use the code. Most customers require it, some governments request it before you can sell.

That said, there is nothing that says you can't build to the code, but just not apply the stamps, unless you plan to register your product with the national board, then it needs the stamp and there is no way around that.

Was this sufficiently confusing?

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/12/2008 3:15 AM

ASME credits the 1905 boiler explosion at the George Keith Shoe Factory in Brockton, Massachusetts with the origin of their Boiler and Pressure Vessel standards.

http://groups.asme.org/pressuretechnology/ravennaitalydbray1.pdf

At the time of the Brockton disaster, boilers and pressure vessels were held together with rivets. There were recommendations about the number, size, and placement of rivets, and even for the method of making the holes (drilled holes produced a stronger joint than punched holes) but until there were legal sanctions, unsafe manufacturing methods and business practices continued. It was just an overloaded boiler in Brockton, but the results were catastrophic.

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#9
In reply to #1

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/14/2008 2:06 PM

Not quite true. Some states have indeed passed laws that require pressure vessels to be code stamped. Illinois for one has done this. Second, your authorized Inspection Agency, while it is an Insurance Company, does not insure you for liability in the event a pressure vessel fails. The Authorized Inspection Agency reviews your Quality Plan, works with you so you become Certified and finally monitors your work as a third party inspector to insure you follow your Quality Plan and build a safe vessel. Finally, ASME is the organization that certifies a company and provides the necessary authority to apply a U Stamp under the scruitny of the National Board of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Inspectors.

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#2

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/12/2008 2:27 AM

You can apply your designs, fabrication, and inspection procedures in accordance with any ASME code without applying the code stamp. In this case no international third party authorized from ASME is required. In this case, and according to the contract you can select the third party for any QA/QC work.

ASME cannot force any manufacturer, inspector, or installer to follow ASME standards. Their use is voluntary.

Standards become mandatory when they have been incorporated into a business contract or incorporated into regulations.

In case of U2 stamp, the ASME code insist that such a PE engineer shall approve the calculations either for fabrication as a new or for repair, rerate, or alteration.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/12/2008 5:48 AM

In case of U2 stamp, PE engineer shall approve both design drawings and design calculations.

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#16
In reply to #4

Re: ASME U2 stamp

09/26/2009 10:28 AM

The following link is free download for some files in DOC formats, and considered a good guide to any firm need to hold ASME Certificate of Authorization: Guide_to_hold_ASME_Certificates_of_Authorization.

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#5

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/12/2008 10:58 AM

I agree with Mr. Abdel Halim Galala. Regards

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#6

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/14/2008 7:13 AM

Your inquiry is confusing. If the customer doesn't want a code stamp why do you think you need to apply for a Div 2 code stamp? Div 2 isn't more economical to build to than Div 1. If no stamp is required why no just build to Div 1. The application and implementation of either Div 1 or Div 2 is a long process and quite expensive. It will take you at least 8 months. If you are not building to ASME Section VIII, Div 1 or Div 2, what are you building to?

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/14/2008 11:58 AM

Mr Morgan, let me clarify your confusion..we intend to optimise the material cost and thus Div-2 is better choice to get advantage of higher allowable strees and less resultant thickness. Here, my question " Can we use div-2 rules without code stamping".. As many of our forum memebers openion says that, ASME doesn't stipulate madatory applications of code stamping, whether it is Div-1 or Div-2. Hence, we can use Div-2 rules.

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/14/2008 2:20 PM

Using the rules of Division 2 should be acceptable except that you must be sure that you comply with all of the requirements of that code. In the past some firms would specify that a vessel be built in accordance with the Code but not code Stamped. For the most part non-code shops do not have a full appreciation for the requirements of the code nor do they have people trained to design to code. It is not enough to use the formulae for longitudinal and circumferential stress without reading, understanding all of the nuances and applying all of the requirements and reviewing all of the subparagraphs and nozzle weld details.

In short, the ASME Code is not a cookbook to build pressure vessels. It takes the experience gleaned from going through the process of formulating a quality plan, writing and qualifying the welding specifications, procedures and welder qualifications.

If you are a code shop, there is no reason not to build to code, if you are not you shouldn't try unless you have outside help.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/14/2008 1:50 PM

I agree with Mr. Morgan23 too. I think if Mr.KV tell us more about his plant plant, the input fluids for handling, the temperature and pressure, the properties of fluids, thickness of the vessels and about the critical majors equipment, somebody of us could recommend certainty him to use u2 or u. Independently of the end client because the responsibility of the construction of the equipment it is of the builder (who should know about the equipment to build! and the design code to apply). Regards

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#11

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/21/2008 11:15 AM

I have several horizontal atmospheric tanks in the paper mill that were designed to ASME code but are not stamped as such. I was told that the fabricator did this because API does not cover horizontal tanks so they use the ASME design critirea for the end heads and such. Anyone ever seen this? We also have older vessels that are not stamped for one reason or the other and although the AI is involved he will not sign the R-1 report if I do not have the original data report or the vessel is not stamped. The rule I use is that if it holds more than 15 PSI I follow the ASME codes and NBIC for R-stamp repairs.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/21/2008 11:27 AM

Your AI is correct and he's the cop. If you repair a vessel that is not code you have to accept the liability. Your AI can participate but I don't know to what end. He cannot certify a repair to a non-code vessel. If the vessel was originally stamped, there should be a record at the original manufacturer or at the National Board if an NB number was applied. If the vessel is not stamped, how do you know that the vessel is safe to begin with?

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: ASME U2 stamp

04/22/2008 2:40 PM

I understand your point and when we repair a non stamped vessel all the AI can do is to wittiness the hydro and review the work. he will not sign the R-1 report of repair. My point is that I have app, 100+ code pressure vessels in the paper mill and it is evident that in the past maybe before Georgia became a code state the people in the mill did not understand or care enough to make sure to keep up with all the data reports or keep the plates and rubbing's for each one of them. Most of my vessels are 285 grade c, 516 grade 70 or 304 L stainless. When I come across a pressure vessel that I have no info. on I have to verify chemistry of the materials, do NDT to determine thickness and review operating parameters etc. and make a decision on how to repair it. Now with this in mind as with everything safety is the most important and I would not repair something that contained 850 psi steam pressure or some bad chemical without having the proper information. Unfortunately I would not have my job long if I just condemned every vessel like this. I do realize that when I do this is that I take full responsibility for the repairs because I am the QCM and administrator of our R-stamp repair program. This is not necessary the best job in the world but where I work just knowing the proper way and and what ASME rules to follow to repair something is not all it is about. My AI is very strict and he knows that we would follow the ASME rules to the letter in a perfect world but he also knows this is not a perfect world.

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#14
In reply to #13

Code Stamping

10/21/2008 5:55 AM

I have pressure vessels on a offshore vessel that i have specified to be to ASME standards (a mixture of ASME VIII and ASME X) - this is the norm for my application. Usually my company is the vendor and so we are told if the vessels need to be code stamped. This time we are the client and i am unsure what criteria decides if the vessels need to be stamped or not. Any guidance?

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Code Stamping

10/21/2008 8:38 AM

Hello, the general rule I use to decide if something should be a pressure vessel is the pressure it was designed to and what will run at. If the vessel runs above 15 PSI or has safety valve set for more than 15 psi it is considered to be a pressure vessel under ASME code and most states as well. I am not very familiar with the section X code and I currently don't have a copy of it. All of my ASME work would be on Boilers(sec I) and fairly normal low to medium pressure vessels (sec. VIII div. 1) Hope this helps.

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Code Stamping

04/14/2012 1:32 AM

you can go to http://www.standardshop.org
there sale a lot of asme aws api standard and so one .can immediately download,and very cheap low price!

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