Thanks Del.

I have actually already sent them a strongly-worded letter along the lines you mentioned (over two weeks ago) and they have not replied.

Can you explainthe "burn in period"?

Burn in period ..
Is when a UUT (unit under test) is left running continuously for a time to test it and show up the 'infant mortality' faults... (sometimes at elevated temperature or load).

Usual failure modes, result in the 'bath tub curve' high initial failures (infant mortality) then a long period of reliability...then wear out/old age failures.... that's why extended warranties are a rip off... after the first 6months/year all the infant mortality faults have shown up...so they get you paying extra when the equipment will (statistically speaking) be reliable anyway!

So a burn in period will test it and show up the infant mortality problem on the mother board....
Years ago when I was a test hand we built monitors which had 72hr burn in at 30degrees C.

Del

Thanks again Del. I understand now and, should I return it to them rather than pursue them through the courts, I will ask for a Burn in Period.

Joe

#7

Keep that in you bag of tricks for if and when litigation seems unavoidable. Remember, they are keeping you off balance with silence. You should do the same as regards to bluffs in word only.

#4

Joe, Please, don't. And simply think of the Court as your remedy of last resort, but an available remedy nonetheless.

No offense meant, del.

I have just received an email from eastcomputers.co.uk saying that they are returning the repaired laptop, inspite of the fact that the woman I spoke to in the returns team said that they would refund my money because it had failed on me three times and I had lost confidence in the machine, having purchased a replacement Dell.

I now find out that they are claiming that a SOFTWARE problem caused the total failure of the machine. Let me just clarify the position - I received the repaired laptop after the second breakdown and simply put it on the table and switched it on. I did not use it at all. when I went in after the second or third day, it was dead. I mean "dead". No lights, no response whatsoever from the computer. With the battery in or out, with the power lead in or out. Nothing.

My question in this: can this happen just because of a software fault? And, if so, what might that software fault be?

Thanks in advance.

Joe

How are they shipping or delivering? Do all in your power refuse shipment or to not be available to sign for same. Instruct anyone else not to sign for the item. It they deliver in the delivery van, don't open door to them. If by mail (or otherwise) do not open or disturb parcel in any way...including any envelope or plastic package with shipping bill and such that might be affixed to the parcel.

More to follow about your software question...for what it's worth.

Thanks for that. I will refuse receipt.

Not a problem. How will you follow up?

CowAnon: I was just in the process of completing your response form that you kindly sent to me and which I did not notice until an hour ago when I received a phonecall from the delightful Natasha at easycomputers.co.uk.

She said that she is very sorry that the engineer wrongly sent the laptop back to me. She is very sorry that Nichola give me a cock and bull story about software yesterday. She is very sorry that she was too busy to take my call yesterday and that she did not have time to talk to Nicola about my case before Nicola butted in. She is also very sorry that they have sent it to the wrong address!

She is emailing the courier and asking them to return it immediately to her at easycomputers. She will then push for a replacement from Acer and then give me a full refund.

We will wait to see developments and I will keep you in touch.

Once again, thanks for everything. You really are amazing in the amount of support you have given and I am proud to be a contributor to CR4 when people like you are "on board".

Joe

Thank you so much for the kind words, Joe. There is so much that your experience reveals, some of which I included in that chart, and other of which I've been jotting down, waiting for the right moment to post if necessary. But now, it evidently (keeping fingers crossed) won't be necessary...unless people want to see...see how the problems you have encountered are not so much caused by ineptitude, ill-will or duplicity, but by the natural workings of organizational "systems"; and how one can "cut through the bull" by, both: knowing what's important and what's immaterial; and knowing what's really going on "behind the curtain" that is causing such "confoundment" and trepidation on the customer's side. (The purpose of the chart, as you perhaps sensed, was to quickly get a handle on all aspects of your situation in order to make advise most appropriate to circumstances. As it turned out, events overtook us, and the best that could be offered was, in effect: keep that laptop out of your lap.)

Here is one case in point as to things important and things tangential—a case in point that goes to the "heart of the bull," which I sensed from the moment I offered to help you get "disentangled." At that time, the talk was mostly of legal rights and legal/technical evidence and argumentation pros and cons, as if it was already a foregone conclusion you would have no option short of litigation—you know..."Sue the bastards." But none of these musings, well-meaning and valid in their own right though they were, really got to the central, most important (legal) aspect of your "case," which (now I can reveal it) was: possession...Yes, that simple little common law construct. As long as possession could be thrust upon you, or you remained willing to accept it, your prospect for getting satisfaction quickly by administrative or any other non-protracted means (such as appealing to your creditor or [in the case of debit card] your banker, or anyone else) was essentially a non-starter. On the other hand, so long as the merchant was in possession, both, of your money and the promised consideration (the laptop)...then it becomes a case....well, let me just say, the merchant then has no legal grounds for continuing to keep the money...and everyone knows it (or is well advised to know it). Such would be a reason, for example, that a creditor (in the US and probably UK as well) would cease standing on dispute rules and immediately grant a provisional credit and "go after" the merchant to explain or relent.

You can also see also how "possession" was the thing that turned your laptop into a kind of hot potato that no one (including you after so advised) wanted to be caught holding (caught possessing) last—and how it continues to be so but, hopefully, with you safely out of the "let's play hot potato" circle. Therein lay the reason that you began seeing attempts (by everyone) to toss the potato to someone else, whether it be from mfr to merchant, merchant to mfr, or (ideally) from everyone to you. On the other side of the curtain, everyone would be happy so long as it was you (the anonymous customer) who (figuratively speaking) was being skewered and held to the flame...until you found your own skewer.

But what about nice Natasha and mean ol' Nicole? And "our" mysterious, all-knowing, all seeing "engineer"? Are these two ladies really opposites, really good and evil, as it seems? Probably not...they each just have their own part to play...and they are quite likely friends! But, watching their "MO's (each of their modus operandi)" provides yet another lesson for swimming among "customer disposal" departments (by whatever euphemism) and other org sharks. Judging by your description, here we have Natasha telling you what she has done or will endeavor to do; we have Nicole saying what "we" can or (mostly) cannot do. Whenever a Merchant Operative (get the connection?....MO?) (and just about any other individual as well) begins referring to him/herself as "we," a warning light should go off: "I'm about to be skewered." The earlier one detects this, the better one can be prepared, to beat a retreat or stay ahead of the game. (Sometimes I get devious pleasure in such situations by thanking the MO for telling me what "you all" will do; and then asking what "you" will do. After the long pause and sometimes hemming and hawing, and spoken or unspoken, the answer usually boils down to: nothing (as in nothing good).

Well, that's all for now. All of us, no doubt, will be waiting with 'bated breath for your updates. In the meantime, don't rest too easy—don't assume things can't still go awry—until the money lands back in your account.

PS: Hopefully, later on, you can tell me about your experience with your new Dell... for when it comes time for me to start shopping a new laptop/notebook?

I'll keep you up to date.

Joe

Joe! Good God, man!!! Snap out of it!!! You're being used as a puppet by a frustrated insect!!!

Not sure I follow you on this one, vermin. Explain please. I'm having a slow brain day.

#2, #3

However, had every unit sold been burned in, you would have paid much more for the unit. At commercial grade, burn in is not done on more than a sample of production units. And, believe it or not, it's not really to help purchasers, but to qualify supply and production chain. At the front door, burn-in statistics can also serve: to set/validate limited warranty policy; and to establish or qualify merchant return policy agreements. For these reason—and the probable incredulity of any person you might ask—is quite unlikely such information would be released to any private citizen/subject, or done on an as demanded basis—especially to a potential legal disputant.

#1. Figuratively speaking, perhaps. But the law is the only thing relevant in order to get the satisfaction you seek....which is return of your money...since you already replaced the computer with the Dell.

The part about the burn-in documentation will only fall on uninformed, hence deaf ears. The point is, you no longer need or want the computer, repaired of exchanged.

CowAnon: I can NEVER trust this laptop. Who would? All I want is my money back or another model from a reputable company. I will then simply have to sell it to recoup some money because of the Dell I bought with an expensive ongoing monthly-paid warranty from PCWorld.

I don't blame you; I wouldn't either. Dell is a good machine with good reputation for service and customer support. By sure to keep all the contact numbers and identifying numbers in a safe place where you can get to them easily.

Thanks again CowAnon. I'll hang on in there...