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Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/12/2008 7:02 PM

Fellow Engineers.

Much has been said about the best choice of additive for electrial hydrolysis of water. I have not seen any discussion how to seperate the two gasses produced. I am considering using a fuel cell. Part of the process is based on having hydrogen being feed into an oxygen feed across a membrane. The gasses must be in seperate containers to work unlike the ICE which simply burns the mixture. Electrolysers such as is based on the Stanley Meyers design put off both gasses at the same time. This can be collected for a combustion engine. The problem is that I do not see a method that allows hydrogen to be collected in one spot while the oxygen molecule can be collected elsewhere. This is exactly what is needed to test and use a fuel cell membrane. I need some serious ideas here. As a side benefit, pure hydrogen is less dangerous than the HHO mix. If there is a process that this can be done, I sincerely would like some discussion on it.

Tom Cornell

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#1

Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 gas by electolysis

05/13/2008 5:18 AM

I do not see a method that allows hydrogen to be collected in one spot while the oxygen molecule can be collected elsewhere.

Didn't you do this at school?
A simple H shaped glass aparatus with + electrode one side and - at the other... the H collects in one vertical arm and the O in the other.

If the elecrtrodes are separate the gas production will be separate... unless my memory has completely fried .

Del

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#2

Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/13/2008 9:17 AM

What would happen to the school experiment if AC is used?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/13/2008 9:43 AM

Using AC would be deliberately contrary...the sort of problem creation exercise practiced by my Mother in Law... .

If you only have AC then break open your wallet and buy a diode.

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#6
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Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/13/2008 11:26 PM

Easy ... just grab every 3rd atom 50 or 60 times per second

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/14/2008 5:08 AM

For that you would need a mechanical flip-flop driven by Strauss music.

O-H-H--O-H-H--O-H-H--

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/14/2008 5:33 AM

Hmmm ... as I read it, it sound more like the soundtrack to a porn movie

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#12
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Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/19/2008 10:55 AM

Hho, hho, hho. Most amusing!

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#4

Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/13/2008 7:42 PM

H is the lightest gas so a long tube with H and O coming in the middle, and H exiting at the top, and O at the bottom should do it. A kind of vortex tube should also work.

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#5

Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/13/2008 10:58 PM

Actually, it is electrolysis of water or the decmposition of water by electrical means.

As you will see at the following web site, each of the gases is produced separately at the two electrodes, (Hydrogen at the Cathode) so our humble experimenter is not collecting "HHO" that somehw needs to be separated or sorted.

http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/MAIN/ELECH20/PAGE1.HTM

I was going to ask why bother collecting the oxygen as the addition of such means to the fuel cell balance of plant is substantial in mass, complexity, potential for failure and expense.

But, using pure Oxygen is an efficiency booster, so thats fair.

Electroysis.

milo

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#9

Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/14/2008 11:36 AM

The main problem with using AC to produce the mixture of H's and O's is that you will have the exact critical mixture waiting for an occasion to explode. This is extremely dangerous even in small quantity. Use DC and keep them separate right from production. This will probably save lives.

If you already have them mixed from some process, dilute them ASAP and burn it. Do not try to compress the critical mixture or use any other energetic process. You would literally be playing with fire...

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#10

Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/14/2008 12:20 PM

Tcorn,137,

As others have indicated, Hydrogen is produced at the negative electrode (cathode) and Oxygen is produced at the positive electrode (anode).

As this question is so basic to the subject of electrolysis, I humbly recommend that you study up on the subject, so that you understand the basic principles and the safety issues. If you Google "electrolysis water" you will find enough to get you started. I also suggest that you look up the properties of hydrogen and oxygen to understand some of the safety issues.

There are kits that are designed to be an introduction to what you are trying to do Here is a kit that generates H2 and O2 by solar power. After the gases are collected, the fuel cell is reversed to produce electricity to power a small toy car:

http://www.super-science-fair-projects.com/fuel-cell-car-experiments-science-kit.html

Tad

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#11

Re: Seperation of H2 and O2 Gas by Electolysis

05/16/2008 11:23 PM

Add together the cost of the means of producing the electricity to make the H and compare the cost with using other types of energy. H is not energy dense so you need about 5 times more H than gasoline to drive the same distance. When you add all the costs together H is the most expensive energy storage medium. {It is not a fuel.]

Standard electrolysis is as described, but less than 5% of H is made by that very expensive method. Other methods use coal, oil methane and other "polluting" materials to make H. HHO gas such as Meyers is too dangerous to use as an auto fuel as well as being too expensive.

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