Thermodynamics is a very jealous mistress. She'll cut you in a minute and laugh as you bleed.

Sorry but the HAFC is a scam (the key is in the conversion efficiency). As to how much damage it would do to the engine, well that is debatable.

Many people fall for this scam because it sounds fairly plausible. Please read the previous threads on CR4 regarding HAFC along with the explanations and scientific proof I and others have put forward explaining why this and other engine-powered water electrolyzers are not worth your hard-earned money and time.

Remember, if something sounds too good to be true it probably is, especially when the people selling these and other similar devices cannot provide actual scientific proof that it works as per the claims.

What about all these claims on the Internet such as "The HAFC is a SCAM!" or "A 50% increase in mileage is impossible!"? Answer: Why don't they put their money where their mouth? For more information on this and why all this garbage is being published please see our answer to question #44. Please, please, please write to that web site or post the following in their blogs or forums, Thank you: <Begin Our Challenge> JeffOtto.com LTD's challenge to any of these so-called critics: Put your money where your mouth is! $5,000 cash to be exact and we will do the same. #44. 44) What about all these negitive claims on the Internet? Due to the rapid increase in negative garbage appearing all over the Internet with such idiotic claims as "A 50% increase in fuel economy is impossible!" we have decided it is high time they either put-up and shut-up or just plain cease & desist. What is the reason for all of this product slamming and character assassination? Our technologies represent a major threat to both the oil companies and the auto manufactures bottom lines. They dare not challenge us in a public fashion simply because they know full well we have the evidence to prove they have been lying to and cheating the consumer worldwide for decades.

The Hydro 4000 is the same deal, just as scammy, and they claim that 15% of the fuel going into the cylinder is unburned, and that their product solves this "problem". This is completely false. The HAFC site has claimed even higher "unburned" amounts -- also complete false. (See above link for actual figures.)

I wonder why it is that the people who like this HAFC product assume that Dennis Lee, a convicted con, has reformed? Does it not seem the least bit suspicious that he continues to sell dealerships in his perpetual motion generator (as he has done for 20 years) but that a working generator has never been delivered?

If you are worried about engine longevity with this, fear not. If it cannot generate enough H2/O2 to cause pinging at near idle speeds, then it can certainly not generate enough at normal loads where the mass flow can be nearly 100 times higher. Given that the energy equivalent in H2/O2 produced is about 100 watts, and given that a typical engine is about 100,000 watts to 200,000 watts, it seems reasonable to expect that this could not possibly have a detrimental effect on your engine. Why not buy one, and take it to a shop with a good dyno with fuel flow measuring capability, and see how it does? You may be paying $1000+ for $10 worth of hardware, but it would be fun to know how the thing really works.

The potential problems you've described would come about because the H2/O2 mix would reduce the total fuel mixture's octane rating. Nowadays, engines have knock sensors to retard timing to prevent knock, so if you don't hear significant pinging, you should have nothing to worry about. But again, the tiny amount of gas generate should be nearly undetectable to your engine, and would not be expected to have any positive or negative effect on longevity or performance.

If you read down a little in this link, you'll find the Mythbusters rationale for saying that the HAFC does not work.

Guest,

Didn't your mama teach you that just because you can formulate nice, coherent seeming, logical thoughts in your head they might not have anything at all to do with reality?

But why are you worrying about such trivial things as a bit more efficiency in your car? Get the right deal and you could burn twice as much fuel and not give a damn because you will have a thousand times more money.

You seem like a nice sort. Listen! I got a great deal for you.

There is this bridge in Brooklyn I happen to own which I will let you have for pennies on the dollar.

Just e-mail me and we will get together.

j.

I have a bonerfied and witnessed to the hilt lean against that bridge to nowhere but some Flatbush Avenue. If you sell that bridge you will have to satisfy my lean!

Hope every one has a save Memorable Holiday and don't forget the reason for this one.

TMF

My current contract is 35 miles from my home, so I'm paying very close attention to mileage (that's as in real mileage that I have to deal with today using what I've got). Here's what I do, and it seems to have given me about a 5-10% increase in mileage (based on simple record keeping):

I drive no faster than the speed limit in heavy traffic and 5 mph under in light traffic.

I keep my tires at exactly the recommended pressure.

I've removed all excess crap from the trunk.

I drive the car with the smaller engine and GVW.

Whenever possible, I set the cruise control and try to never touch the brake or gas.

I try to minimize braking by letting the car slow itself when approaching stop lights etc.

No "pie in the sky". No money out of pocket. No reinventing the IC engine. Just what appears to me to be basic engineering - use proven technology to solve problems as best you can.

Finally after two hours of reading different blogs I have come to the conclusion that the HAFC and PICC system is a scam by the Dennis Lee guy.. Fuckin scammers

YOU ARE SO RIGHT. I BEILEVE THE TECH. IS POSSIBLE BUT THIS COMPANY IS SO BOGUS!~

The technology of creating H2/O2 mix on board, is of course possible. Unfortunately, the energy value of the gases created is about 1/5 the energy value of the fuel consumed to create the gases. Therefore, all these electrolysers operate at a net loss, but they create such a tiny amount of the gases (1/300 of the fuel input, generally) that the slight loss the devices cause is nearly impossible to measure, even on a good dyno.

This award offers $1,000,000 to anyone providing one of these devices that actually works.

The people offering the reward are not worried that they will ever have to pay.

the tech doesn't even work... The whole thing has been shutdown by the FTC, now do you get it!

If you hate your engine that much, drain the oil, don't replace it and run the engine until it stops. This will be less costly than the price that you pay for the covalizer. [ covalizer:- snake oil, to be used only for the oiling of sun dried snake meat, just before inserting it into your tail pipe. Guaranteed to make you run faster, similar to a seepository.] (as in see him run fast and funny)

The addition of the oxy-hydrogen fuel gas will mean that retarding of the timing will be necessary, electronically or otherwise as it reacts to the spark 1000 times faster than gasoline fuel.

It appears that the HAFC is just a modern version of the wood chips for fuel technology used during the first world war when all other fuels were in short supply.

I suggest that you wait for further development of this furtalizer producer.
NO OFFENCE INTENDED!

TMF