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Guru

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Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/23/2008 12:44 AM

I recently ran across the abreviations CL and IL on a civil drawing from the other side of the ocean.

Can someone inform this "dumb American" what these abbreviations stand for?

My current guess is "Cover Level" and "Invert Level", because of the mm numbers beside the abbreviations.

Thanks!

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#1

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/23/2008 1:07 AM

My first thought for CL was centre line but even a "dumb American" would recognize it.

Please give more clues about the purpose of the plans.

What about Critical Level.

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Member

Join Date: May 2008
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#11
In reply to #1

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/24/2008 6:37 AM

Buddy,

CL means Cetre Line

IL means Invert Level

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#21
In reply to #11

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

06/24/2010 4:54 AM

what meaning of il & iph in electrical ..

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#2

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/23/2008 4:09 AM

If it's an Irish drawing maybe Clover Leaf ? (sorry )

Del

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#3

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/23/2008 8:24 AM

To me, this plan sounds like a surveyor's topographical plan to be used by the civil engineer to design something. As the other commenter mentioned, until we learn more about this plan, it is impossible to guess with certainty.

Does the plan have a title? If so, this will serve as a clue if you can share this with us.

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#4

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/23/2008 8:33 AM

Yes it is cover level and invert level. You are looking at a foul water (FW) and rainwater (RW) sewer plan are you not?

Normally the measurements are in metres above OSD Ordnance Survey Data levels. If they are in mm then they would be with respect to the invert level of the nearest mains sewer connection point or a site datum which has been defined.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/23/2008 9:01 AM

Yes, as you term it these are foul and rainwater sewer drawings (over here we call it sanitary and storm sewer). I appreciate your confirmation, and give you a GA vote.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/23/2008 9:44 AM

What the hell is "foul water"? Wordwide many call this "sewer". What the hell is "rainwater"? Many worldwide call this "storm". What the hell is "Ordnance (spell check) Survey Data"?

What is the country of origin of this plan? I'm guessing not US since metric units are referenced.

CR4 posters should not assume all readers are from the same country that original poster is from. I get the impression that many from India are not aware that the CR4 community extends beyond their borders.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/23/2008 11:10 AM

This is rich from someone who doesn't have their location with their Avatar...

WTF are you man?

Del

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/23/2008 1:13 PM

Born in the USA man, cat or WEverTF you are! My Avatar clearly shows me to be a New England Patriot!

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#18
In reply to #9

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/25/2008 8:06 PM

And a New England Patriot is....??

Is it anything to do with Memorial day?

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/25/2008 10:23 PM

One whose spirit incorporates the events of.Patriots'_Day/

In the Colonies, an armed militia who took part in a historic conflict on April 19, 1775 against His Majesty's Fifth Regiment of Foot.

Under orders of King George III, they marched from Boston to Lexington and Concord to further provoke trouble in these Colonies. See link. Battle Road

However, the militia was ready for them and chased them back to Boston killing and capturing many.

Later on (1960) a team known as the "Boston Patriots" was organized in the American Football League to commemorate these brave men.

The team moved out of Boston forty miles south and was renamed "New England Patriots" as the fan base includes the six New England states. This team has won three American Football Championship in the last six years and is probably more well known than the original Patriots after whom they were named.

Memorial Day - Indirectly. Had not the Colonists ran the Brits out of Boston and eventually the Colonies, there would not have been a USA and therefore no Memorial day.

Interesting side-note: Evacuation day Evacuation Day is celebrated in Boston on March 17 (nine months after Patriot's Day) as the day the Brits left Boston (Dorchester). However, Irish American's insist on celebrating this as Saint Patrick's day instead.How unpatriotic is that.

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#20
In reply to #9

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/29/2008 11:44 AM

By the way metric is the standard in US for science, and is used by many agencies, one particular one that influences all the other state agencies is CalTrans. Since all the other states use CalTrans methods, or reference them, as their basis for their own standards, you should expect that after a reasonable trial period for California to work the older engineers, who are inflexible to learn new content, out of the system and get it fully accepted, your state will be converting (even some of those quaint northerneastern states). If you find metric units problematic, you could start studying now so you can retain a little bit of the new system for the conversion from the english system to the metric system in about 5 to 10 years or so, depending upon the level of advancement of the engineering standards in your state. Expect a much longer delay in Water resources and Geotechnical engineering fields, these groups are very resistant to transitioning (and Water Resources Engineers actually prefer using like 5 different units that are not so easily converted to measure like water flow or storage capacity, it keeps people outside the industry confused).

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/23/2008 12:32 PM

Lighten up a little!

Excellent guess that the plans are not US since I identified myself as a "Dumb American" and mentioned the metric units. Since I said they were from the other side of the ocen, that also was a subtle clue.

I didn't think I needed to give the country of the plans, and since I got an educated answer from someone quick enough to expand on my question and give a reasonable response I think I provided sufficient information.

Be careful when you loosely use the term sewer, since there are several types of sewer and dangerous things happen without careful design. I have worked with Sanitary (Foul Water), Storm (Rainwater), Industrial waste, cyanide sewer, and chromic acid sewer. I could identify with omw7's reply as sounding correct because of brief but informative answer.

A little humor and imagination helps alot and goes a long way on this forum. Get some and use it. This is an international site, and not everybody writes good American like I do.

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#17
In reply to #6

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/25/2008 6:15 PM

Hello eriew,

'Ordnance' is from Ordnance Survey, the Official Geographical Survey of Britain.

And, though I have yet to do a search I think it may relate to stores of 'Ordnance' (Arms for the Military etc) and, may be the distance those Arms could be fired and the 'High-Points of land the Arms could possibly be fired from, to reach other critical 'Ordnance areas?

'Foul Water' is 'dirty' water that collects in natural hollows and is not rain water or any other fresh water. It also refers to water from the bath, hand basin, shower, washing machine, dishwasher, tumble dryer etc, before it runs into the sewer pipe. After it has run into the sewer pipe it is sewer water. Sewer water is just that, water from Toilets that run in usually salt-glazed pipes and brick and concrete ducts several metres wide underground. Rain water refers to the run-off of rain water and water from flooded fields etc. All this eventually goes into a central huge sewer pipe to a treatment works because it all needs to be de-contaminated.

Sorry for any 'obvious' comments in the definitions but just trying to explain fully. I do not infer any stupidity in any way OK?

jfmfit

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#10

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/24/2008 2:09 AM

Hi Reid

Your question was pure discrimination

I mean, you put a question and answer it yourselves and expect CR4 members without knowledge of s-s-sh-sewer to guess the application and country without the slightest clue.

I think the least you can do now is to let us guess the country. Maybe you can drop a clue or two by Wednesday.

My guess goes to Zimbabwe. Plenty of foul play and problems.

I guess the $ is worth about Z$ 350,000,000. (calculated via the SA Rand)

They don't do plans there but a note at the back of a cigarette box will quickly escalate to a plan.

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/24/2008 11:08 AM

Yes it was, but I'm not sure who the intended target was. I am also somewhat bigoted, racist, and a troglodyte, which I try to keep somewhat under control. I also try to be careful to enjoy life which in my book means being able to laugh at myself and my occasional(frequent?) mistakes and idiosyncrasies.

When an American says the other side of the pond, it does leave a large area of practice. However since 99.94% of the rest of the world uses SI measurement, I thought that was specific enough. Project is actually in Qatar, near Doha. At least your guess was in the right hemisphere. I don't know the $ value, but it is a new city so I would guess a lot.

I did not know the answer, but made a semi-educated guess and asked for confirmation. I did get my guess confirmed (even a blind pig occasionally finds an acorn), and thanked the contributor. A second respondent also confirmed part of my guess. Based on the content of the sewer plans, I believe cover level is the better choice.

It's interesting you mention Zimbabwe in your post, I'm still waiting for my share of the Z$ 350,000,000 that was promised in an email I got several years back(tongue firmly in cheek, but I can't hold the laugh much longer). I have been known to do plans on the inside of a dry cereal box.

End of rant, now have a nice day!

Ried

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/25/2008 2:10 PM

Hi Ried

Don't claim your "prize" now. You will be asked to pay banking fees, postage, bribes etc. amounting to Z$ 3,500,000,000,

I have a lunch slip here somewhere for 23 March 2008, A soft drink and a dinner for slightly more than Z$ 1,000,000,000.00

Zim removed some zeros not so long ago.

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#12

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/24/2008 10:25 AM

This is all very strange.

A question is asked, it is answered to the entire satisfaction of the questioner and yet many on the CR4 forum are upset that they cannot understand the answer.

In many replies to questions on the forum, reference is simply made to Wikipedia or Google. I suggest that this is something we can all do if we come across terms that we do not understand immediately.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey

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#14

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/24/2008 1:25 PM

So to recap:

A poster asks a question about a plan on his desk having to do with some abbreviations which are not obvious to him in USA. He states that the plan comes from another country, but does not state which one. CR4 is asked to help him solve this riddle.

Posters ask for more information. What type of plan? The country of origin? Etc.

Next in sequence, a poster responds with what he feels is the obvious answer. How is it possible not to know what IL means on a plan of some sort from somewhere?

Later on, someone familiar with this plan or location solves the riddle. I wonder, is it possible that he was prompted to reply? Interesting.

More back and forth and some name calling.

Finally, the statement that a simple appeal to Wiki or Goggle would easily have confirmed these rather obvious standards. Obvious to those with the plan on their desk, or obvious to the CR4 community?

This line of reasoning is pure nonsense. I may try Goggle or Wiki to see if I get a hit on the now named country, but I certainly would not expect Goggle to return a favorable result on "IL". This abbreviation simply has not yet gained the status of an internationally known acronym. Accept this fact and move on.

PS

The argument will be even more difficult in the case of "CL" as this one clearly is accepted throughout the civil engineering/survey world as "center-line".

You or the plan maker are simply trying to define new or unusual terms to replace world-standard terms. What's wrong with Rim? Invert (Inv.)?

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Meaning of abbreviations IL & CL

05/24/2008 8:30 PM

Obviously a bad case of misunderstanding on my part, as I did not intend to create a tempest in this teapot.

Engineering practices and criteria vary across the world, and before accepting an assumption it is best to ask for confirmation. I thought CR4 was the easiest place to ask.

I did not think centerline was the correct interpretation because of the way the abbreviation was presented. I can understand how others could have that conclusion though because it is a very common abbreviation.

Based on the fact it was a civil drawing I guess IL was invert level because in US, IE is frequently (not always) used for Invert Elevation. RIM is frequently used for Rim Elevation.

Brits (or is it Americans?) especially use variations in many terms, for example Pram-Stroller, Bonnet-Hood, etc. I know enough about overseas work that I cannot provincially assume they use identical terminology to the US.

At this point lets agree to disagree. You will think I posted my query in a weird, unclear, and confusing language, while I think you are too narrow-minded in how things need to be done and presented. (We are somewhat both correct). However, let us agree to end this snit-fit. I for one feel foolish in keeping it up. I would perfer to let it drop. (Note I am just going away, but not going away mad!)

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