Sites: GlobalSpec.com | GlobalSpec Electronics | CR4 | Electronics360
Login | Register
The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®

Previous in Forum: Butyl Inner Tube   Next in Forum: Electricity Costs and Electric Bikes
Close

Comments Format:






Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







41 comments
Anonymous Poster

Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/05/2008 9:34 AM

Hi everyone; I have a 2000 Chevy Calavier that doesen't want to start. I have checked the starter and ignition switch and battery. The only thing I notices is when the car is parked for about 10 hours or more it starts. Why? Is there some kind of kill switch in the on board computer with a capasitor or something that has to disipate an electric charge or something. How do I fix this. Thanks Rich

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/05/2008 11:43 PM

Rich, Check out the main fuel injection pump. If the seals between it and the injectors are bad, it will leak fuel into the injection plenum. The injectors could also have faulty seals, allowing the engine to flood. Waiting the ten hours allows the fuel to evaporate.

Good Luck Blue

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 353
Good Answers: 6
#2

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/06/2008 1:16 AM

Hi everyone; I have a 2000 Chevy Calavier that doesen't want to start. I have checked the starter and ignition switch and battery. The only thing I notices is when the car is parked for about 10 hours or more it starts. Why? Is there some kind of kill switch in the on board computer with a capasitor or something that has to disipate an electric charge or something. How do I fix this. Thanks Rich

Need a bit more info in order to define the problem. Your mentioning that you checked the starter, ign. switch, and battery leads one to think that the engine fails to crank (turn over). Is this correct? Or, does the engine crank, but not fire?

How did you test the battery?

__________________
This is it... so live it up!
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/06/2008 4:56 AM

Need a bit more info in order to define the problem. Your mentioning that you checked the starter, ign. switch, and battery leads one to think that the engine fails to crank (turn over). Is this correct? Or, does the engine crank, but not fire?

He said the engine starts after 10 hours...which eliminates fuel system, ignition system, starter.

Most likely....charging system.

Suspect alternator...possibly battery.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/06/2008 8:08 AM

I had a '96 Chevy Corsica that would start fine and drive great, but after turning it off it wouldn't start again for awhile. I had the starter bench tested at the local parts store twice and both times it checked out ok. I finally decided to replace it anyways and I never had the problem again. The starter was checking ok as far as the test goes, but after running it was getting hot and wouldn't start my car until it cooled off. When I was having the problem, sometimes I could jump the car off and it would start. So you may wanna go ahead and replace the starter, if that doesn't fix it, you can always get your money back. Hope that helps. Lord bless.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#5

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/06/2008 9:31 AM

don't knoww if this will help but start with the ignition swith.is the key a resitor chip type is it a factory or deal generated key, a resale itemwil by experience provide a r.p.a. to any attempts at starting after shut down. 2 has the ignition swith rack been disturbed 3 what is the condition of the connections from the switch to the harmonica plug and to the transmission intelock like 4 when did you last clean the battery terminals and all starter cable connections and coat them with e.c.s. grease?

'da ber

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 124
Good Answers: 5
#6

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/06/2008 12:37 PM

Greetings from outer Thurston County.

Not knowing the details here are a few suggestions.

The bearing on the starter can be warn enough to drag but not all the time. Usually it fails in traffic or where there are no less than 30 people coming out of church there to watch. Usually the bearing (429 67 Cadillac) was rather cheap and easy to change out in car.

The ground between, battery, starter, frame can be at fault and you are not getting a complete circuit or one that will not take the amps to crank the starter. A friend had a motor home with a 454 chevy that drove him nuts until the ground was fixed. It has worked flawlessly for the last couple of years after the fix.

Both of these are GM products so maybe it is a GM thing.

You can also get a service manual and find a Good Parts Person and between the two and all of the CR4 advise you to can overcome this engineering or mechanical problem.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Tenneesse, USA
Posts: 671
Good Answers: 43
#7

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/06/2008 6:06 PM

Hello, I had a GM car some time back, the engine had a distributor less ignition system

a control module and power pack that the plug wires went to. The control module had overheated and the potting melted out and the symptom was no start except after sitting for several hours and a slight miss on hot days. I found the melted potting dripping out of the module one day after driving and the parking then trying to restart.

I replaced both units and plug wires and plugs the car ran better and improved fuel MPG.

This was my experience with a no start then a start after sitting.

But more info would help all of us to help you to figure out whats wrong. Other wise

every thing we offer is WAG "wild a$$ guess"


Charles

__________________
Metal is the material, The forge is life, The anvil and hammer bring character and soul.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 353
Good Answers: 6
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/06/2008 11:10 PM

But more info would help all of us to help you to figure out whats wrong. Other wise every thing we offer is WAG "wild a$$ guess"

Charles

Agreed. Troubleshooting is accomplished by the process of elimination, so it would help if OP came back to us with more info.

I have sometimes found the situation, just as OP describes, to be merely corroded battery cables. The alternator can't charge the battery to capacity while the engine is running, due to resistance of the chemical deposit, interfering with current flow. Then, after the battery sits for a spell, it recovers some of its charge, internally, at least enough to start the engine. Weak alternator output will give same result.

__________________
This is it... so live it up!
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Tenneesse, USA
Posts: 671
Good Answers: 43
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/07/2008 2:17 AM

Skeeter,

I had forgot about battery problems. That is a good starting point.

One of my vehicles I had that I gave/sold cheep to a friend had a miss/cut out

problem I had replaced several parts never found it. When my friend took it home

the car died and could not start it. he jumped it when the other car disconected

it die. Then he put another battery on the car it ran good no more miss/cutouts...

the battery was bad.

Charles


Oh, if the OP would give some more info.... that would help....

__________________
Metal is the material, The forge is life, The anvil and hammer bring character and soul.
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/07/2008 2:52 AM

You need to think systemically, not component wise. What skeeter and another before have told you is, think "charging system." You'll start with battery and cable clamps, because that's easiest. Measure 12V across terminals with engine off. Measure 14V same way with engine on. Go to auto parts store, pull the battery and let them test it under load for free. If they say its bad, problem solved. If they say it's good, go home, disconnect anode cable, connect test light between cable and anode, turn ignition key on. If light glows, isolate and clear a short circuit to ground that is discharging the battery. If not, connect a charger at low current and charge battery overnight. The car will start the next day. Next, take booster cables along and drive the car until the engine hesitates, stalls or dies; or until engine won't restart. Make note of the distance/time driven before this fault appears--that is the time it's taking to discharge the battery drawing primary ignition current from the battery, rather than from the alternator...because the alternator output (or integrated voltage regulator circuitry) has failed. Then start shopping for an alternator. You'll likely have to do the overnight charge routine for a while until you find it, purchase it, and get it installed. Try to get an exact match (including mount and clock settings) or higher nominal current output in the new alternator, or it can be a bitch to get it installed and still have the harness reach the hookup connectors. Also consider replacing the battery cables, especially the anode cable if it's never been replaced since the car was new; however the cables, at seven years, should be still within, but nearing, their life expectancy. Be sure to specify cables of equal or greater diameter (lesser gauge)...if OEM replacements are no longer be available.

Reply
Participant

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2
#38
In reply to #10

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

09/09/2008 12:10 PM

In your response you state "anode" cable. Why do you not state pos or neg? The anode cable is unclear and can be either, depending if battery is charging or discharging correct?

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#39
In reply to #38

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

09/10/2008 5:31 AM

Actually the guest's terminology (hence his recommendation) was incorrect...even more than yours. It was the ground (black) cable that should be disconnected from battery cathode (-/neg on Cavaliers). The guest with whom you took issue would do well to revise his advice since, if anyone attempted the test as he stated, they could be in for a rude surprise...possibly even a nasty burn...possibly even an explosion... being so close to the battery. Guest's post also violates a hard and fast rule: to never disconnect the "hot" (usually red) cable before disconnecting the ground cable.

The guest's "anode cable" [rev. "cathode cable"] coinage, albeit that it is not strictly correct—a (battery) cable is merely a conductor that happens to be connected to a battery and has no particular identity of its own—is a trivial matter in that all will understand (even if guest did not) that the ground cable was being described as an extension of the battery post (rightfully spoken, the cathode) to a ground point. (It makes trivial difference whether we consider the the battery cathode to exist at the post or at the the end of a conductor connected to the post; the short circuit test with test light would work whether the light was connected post-to-cable or cable-to-ground.)

To clarify further: a Cavalier's battery cathode will always be the cathode (the neg. battery terminal from which [negative charge] electrons flow [during discharge]towards ground), irrespective of charging status or any other consideration. This nomenclature is a matter of convention.

The rule, to always disconnect from cathode (from neg/-) first, applies in instances of negative ground vehicles, which is invariably the case with vehicles for a long time now. My antique Ferguson farm tractor, on the other hand, is positive ground—electrons flow from ground to the battery. In that case (which is never the case with a Cavalier), it would be the anode (always +) from which the GND cable should always be disconnected first, connected last; and disconnected for testing battery discharge through shorts to ground.

Hope this helps...

CA

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#11

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/07/2008 6:04 PM

Hi again everyone; I have been trying to do as many suggestions as possible but it takes time. A little more info about my Cavlier, when I put the key in I hold the key till it starts, most of the time it will take about 50 to 60 seconds of continusely holding the key in start position. All the instrument lights go on, but the car takes that long to start. Why? Help Rich Thanks

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7552
Good Answers: 98
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/07/2008 8:21 PM

When did this problem raise it head? Did happen suddenly or did the car progressively take a long time to start?

If you hold key at on position for 5-6 seconds then try start is a difference in time it takes?

What condition is motor, mileage etc.. When was last tune-up?

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#14
In reply to #11

Re: New stab at Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/08/2008 4:00 AM

This is good (post #11) because now we can see that we are trying to assist a person of the female persuasion (or perhaps a male with no previous experience with cars) with her (or his) little Cavalier; we also see that her knowledge of engines is superficial—she can identify certain components visible on the engine exterior, but visualizing what's going on inside, systematically, is something that must come with more learning and experience.

We might ask why it is that you don't take the car to a shop but, perhaps you are hoping to understand better how to diagnose and correct your car's problems...leaving the visit to a repair shop as the last resort. That is also good.

So let's begin again from that standpoint...starting with how to describe what your problem is in standard "car language" that everyone understands alike. Let's begin with a re-statement of your latest post...you can tell us if this is what you were meaning to say:

...about my Cavalier— When I put the turn the key(switch) in I hold the key till it starts to start the engine, most (?!) of the time it will it takes about a minute (50 to 60 seconds) of continusely holding the key in start position continuous cranking before the engine starts. [Rich, this symptom is called "hard starting" or (better) "excessive cranking required before engine starts."] When I turn the key to the On position (just before fully turning the key to Start position), All the instrument lights go on. [Rich, this tells us that battery power is getting to the keyswitch...but we already know that because the engine cranks when the key is turned all the way to Start, at which point the dash lights should go out]. just b, but the The car takes that long to start and, before, it always started right away. Why? What could be causing this?

Assuming I've restated your car's problem correctly (tell me if not), I must first point out that you have described two sets of problems: (2) the one just described and (1) the problem where the engine is hard to start after it has been running (is warmed up), has been stopped (turned off), and needs to be re-started. [Rich, this is why I emphasized and put a question mark by "most of the time," above. Because, writing as you've done, it would suggest that the car only starts easily (say) in the morning when the car has sat and cooled overnight; but that you make many stops and re-starts during the day before retiring the Cavalier again for the night...and it's during those re-starts that you run into problems. Assuming this is correct (again, let us know if, and how, it's not), let's talk about where we are and what to do next.

As to where we are—

  • We can assume your battery, cables, and alternator are (the charging system is) performing okay—maybe not perfectly but good enough. We say that because you can repeatedly crank the engine for long periods, which means the battery has a full charge, which means the battery is charging as you drive the car.
  • We can tentatively eliminate the starter itself or the ignition switch—same reason.
  • We can reserve judgment about ignition system and fuel system—even if hard starting at times, the car starts and runs (presumably) satisfactorily.

As to what to do next—

So what is the "missing" element that can narrow the problem down? The only "hard" symptom we have, so far, is that hard starting begins after the Cavalier has been driven for a while; after the engine has warmed up. Now, Rich, there are many ways in which heat can cause a car to have starting or other performance problems; and, if necessary, we can get to these in due time; But first, I have a hunch at what might solve your problem. So let's try something to see if and how it helps before going into detailed troubleshooting of heat related fault symptoms. Here goes.

It's being a 2000 model, your car is fitted with a fuel injection system rather than a carburetor. With late-model, fuel injected cars, the proper fuel delivery and fuel-air mixture settings are set automatically by the engine control computer. Unlike a carburetor equipped engine, there is nothing (in all but a few extreme cases) that the driver needs to do to start the engine other than turn the key. Doing things like stepping on or pumping the gas pedal (giving it gas) are unnecessary and should never be done...because, when they are done, it tends to work against the computer when starting the engine...because the computer gets wrong information about the engine's condition...for example, it detects that the throttle in the throttle body is opened at some angle and sets the engine fuel system and ignition accordingly. So here is what I want you to do.

When you start the engine in the morning, do not give the engine any gas; simply keep your right foot completely off the gas pedal and crank the engine (turn the key to Start) for not more than a few 1 - 5) seconds. If it does not start up right away, do not continue cranking. Instead, turn the key off, wait about 20 seconds, and try again. The engine should start.

Now let's talk about re-starting the engine after if has warmed up. Do we want to do anything different? No, we don't. But, before we get to re-starting, let's talk about stopping, about turning off the engine. What we want to do to turn off the engine is to take foot completely off the gas pedal and let the engine idle normally for five to ten seconds. Listen to the engine during this time. It should be idling normally and quietly. If it seems to be racing (running unusually fast and louder than normal), make note of that and let us know when you report back here. [The point behind letting the engine idle a bit (for our purpose here) is to let the computer stabilize and "achieve" the proper engine setting for the next re-start; and to "burn off" any excess fuel in the manifold and combustion chambers. We don't need to go into detail about that right now.) So, now that we've properly stopped the engine, when you're ready to restart, simply crank the engine for a few seconds (foot completely off gas pedal), or less if it starts. If it doesn't, wait 20 seconds and try again (again, no gas pedal). Repeat again if necessary...do not crank the engine continuously. (For right now, just remember, your foot should never touch the gas pedal at any time unless and until the engine has fired up and is running. You want to let the computer do all the work adjusting the fuel settings to start the car.)

Now under certain conditions, we might want to modify this slightly, but we haven't reached that point yet. Let's just see if your Cavalier's starting situation improves with you and the engine control computer working together, and not against each other. Let us know how it goes....and if we need to "take it to the next level."

While I'm here, there's something else you can tell us that might help us help you. Can you tell us how long since you bought your Cavalier? Is it possible that you purchased it fairly recently? If so, did you purchase from a used car lot? From an individual? Or from a new-car dealership? This might be helpful in case we need to do further troubleshooting of your problem.

Good luck with trying the correct starting method. Let us know what result you get.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7552
Good Answers: 98
#15
In reply to #14

Re: New stab at Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/08/2008 10:39 AM

Chicken in hiding

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Anonymous Poster
#19
In reply to #15

Re: New stab at Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/08/2008 8:43 PM
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 353
Good Answers: 6
#13

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/07/2008 8:37 PM

I'm done. Trying to help this guest "Rich" is futile; he won't let us help him by even answering simple questions. Still don't know how he checked the battery. Initially, it sounded like the starter circuit, but now, judging from his latest post, it appears to be fuel-supply related, ignition module, or...?

__________________
This is it... so live it up!
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#17
In reply to #13

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/08/2008 8:28 PM

That is not a good answer...to Rich's request for time and patience. But by now you probably already realized that. So, sorry.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 353
Good Answers: 6
#23
In reply to #17

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/09/2008 12:31 AM

That is not a good answer...to Rich's request for time and patience. But by now you probably already realized that. So, sorry.

I think I have perused all of Rich's posts, and have not found anywhere that he asked for time and patience. Perhaps you can provide the number of the post wherein Rich made that request? If not, why not just butt out, instead of making things up just to post, and needle someone who has made an ernest attempt to aid in troubleshooting the Cavalier.

__________________
This is it... so live it up!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster
#24
In reply to #23

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/09/2008 1:51 AM

Look at post #11, think before you make replies, and mind your manners.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 353
Good Answers: 6
#25
In reply to #24

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/09/2008 2:03 AM

WTF? You're nuts.

__________________
This is it... so live it up!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster
#26
In reply to #25

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/09/2008 5:34 AM

You could use a good ass whuppin'. But you done done that to yerself. So git on back to yer shovelin', and yer longnecks. See if anyone cares.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 353
Good Answers: 6
#27
In reply to #26

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/09/2008 1:42 PM

Suggestion... go troll somewhere else, troll.

__________________
This is it... so live it up!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster
#37
In reply to #27

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/10/2008 7:48 PM

Hi again, Skeeter. I was going to ignore that last one and let yours be the last word--after all, getting the last words is the thing, isn't it?--and I hate to post last word. But I wanted to ask you something; or maybe someone else knows. This "troll" word--where does it come from and what does it mean, exactly? How's a person to even know it's an insult and not a compliment? It seems to be some kind of simile, perhaps related to fishing; or to cute little monsters? Or something else even more sinister. I get the sense, though, that it really means nothing that you, or many others, really know--just one of those angry-chatty things people say when there's nothing left to say...to get the last word? Hope you or someone can answer this; but I fear all I'll get is just another "ya-got-me-so-I'll-githcha-back-gooder" last word.

--Troll Extraordiaire

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Tenneesse, USA
Posts: 671
Good Answers: 43
#16

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/08/2008 6:13 PM

Hello Rich, I did a little google search also found that the cam sensor can cause hard start or no start also. the link to the site is ...

Fix It

also i copied the text here also.

This is an article on how to replace a camshaft position sensor on a sunfire or cavalier 2.2 liter engine. The engine uses this for the timing of the engine and without it, the engine may not run at all. The cam position sensor could also intermittenly cause running or starting issues. If the engine backfires from another problem, it could cause the computer to show an error even if the sensor is working correctly. The arrow in the picture points in the general location of the camshaft sensor which is located on the backside of the engine. First you will need to remove the top air hose which is also located in front the arrow.

There is a hose clamp on the right and left side that will need to be unscrewed. The left side will need to come out farther since a tube extends up inside of it. There is a clip that holds the two cables you see in the picture that is easily snapped to release them. There is also an air temperature sensor in the tube that can be removed or just set the tube aside as I did. Next the air box located to the left of the air tube will need to be removed to see the sensor.

This is the bottom of the airbox that needs to be removed. You will notice the screw to loosen the clamp is located to the left of the bottom arrow. When you go to reinstall the airbox it needs to slide between the two pieces shown in the bottom arrow.

Next the bolts and nuts need to be removed to remove this cover for access to the cam position sensor. The arrows above point to what needs to be removed.

This is what it will look like with the fuel rail cover removed. This is the tough part as you look around the intake manifold at the backside of the engine. There is not a lot of extra space but there is enough room to fit your arm through.

Here is a view of the cam sensor on the back of the engine block. The arrow points to the clip that will need to be pulled off of the sensor A small bolt will need to be removed from the sensor as shown below and you will be able to pull it loose from the engine block. You will also see that there is an o ring to seal it to the engine. When reinstalling the new camshaft position sensor be careful to not force it in hard, wiggle it around while pushing it in. Forcing it in straight could damage the o ring and create a leak.

Rich I hope this is some additional info helps.

If you could also tell us the model, engine size and any other info like has been asked

would be helpful.

this info I'm not sure what year is covers some other info on the sit covered a 1999

model.

I had had a friend that had suzukie that has symptoms like yours after a lot of part

swapping then replaced the cam sensor it fix it. But when ever the wife drove it

it all ways acted up. "She wanted a new car" so the only was to fix her problem was th buy her a new car...the saga go on....


Charles

__________________
Metal is the material, The forge is life, The anvil and hammer bring character and soul.
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#18
In reply to #16

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/08/2008 8:42 PM

It should be obvious by now that the tear down and replacement could be beyond the person's ability to diagnose and perform...if it ultimately proved to be the fault. Don't you agree that this one should be left on the back burner...in case a repair shop's help should become indispensable?

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Tenneesse, USA
Posts: 671
Good Answers: 43
#20
In reply to #18

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/08/2008 9:32 PM

Hello Guest, The info was two fold if Rich is able to figure out that is the problem and has a little mechanical skill, not all people have automotive knowledge but can learn. And the 2nd point is if Rich takes it to a service center then He would have some knowledge to understand what they tell him and not be take advantage of not knowing and charge a lot more for non-work. Like having to change the thing-a-gig in the whatch-a-dodal....

Correct info and knowledge is power, weather you use it your self or have some one do it for you.


Charles

__________________
Metal is the material, The forge is life, The anvil and hammer bring character and soul.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7552
Good Answers: 98
#21
In reply to #20

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/08/2008 10:10 PM

Pay special attention for sign 'labor $60/hr or $75/hr if you watch or $100/hr if you help

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Tenneesse, USA
Posts: 671
Good Answers: 43
#22
In reply to #21

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/08/2008 11:55 PM

Ok bwire, I guess I thought this forum was to help. I know some people that has ask for help that don't know how to ask the correct questions or don't give enough info.

So my bad for trying to give some info so that someone might learn a little.

I guess not everyone was born with your Knowledge or Sarcasm.

Ya if a place has the Special sign prices I might just find some other place with

a little more ethics in there work. Any good shop should be able to help you to understand the service and not just tell you a bunch of crap. If you have some proper knowledge of the job then you are more informed than not. It keeps someone from blowing smoke up where the sun don't shine. Unless that your game.


Charles

__________________
Metal is the material, The forge is life, The anvil and hammer bring character and soul.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7552
Good Answers: 98
#30
In reply to #22

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/09/2008 8:57 PM

Whoa up there metalsmith:

I am not criticizing you or the way you communicate.

It is a well known joke and shows a sense of humor, most shops that display such a sign have their ducks in a row and provide excellent service, that has at least been my experience.

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Tenneesse, USA
Posts: 671
Good Answers: 43
#33
In reply to #30

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/09/2008 11:57 PM

OK bwire I'll give ya that one... It was just the negative of some of the other posts that I was biting at...It's just been I've just not had very good luck over the years unless I stayed on them and watched or be able to inspect as the job went. If the shop would not accommodate my request up front I would go some were else. I just wanted to see if the job was being performed correctly not that i would ever bother or get in the mechanic way. If is was a gross problem i would deal with the service manager.

Most of the shops I've dealt with over the years have worked with me and the few that did not and i went ahead with the service they either did not complete the work properly or other problems developed because of the service was in properly preformed. Like tighting the bolts on the wheels in a circle and not in a star pattern and over tighten warped the brake rotors and damage the mag wheels and strip the studs. I just about lost the wheel because of that. Now only tork wrenches or tork sticks on the impact guns. And this was a place i did a lot of business with!

Another example was a mechanic that had done engine and some other repairs for me rebuilt a transmission he stacked the clutch disks in the wrong pattern like metal then fiber then metal ... it was metal metal fiber, fiber ....plus he left a metal basket/spacer but put the plastic cover in??? the trans lasted two months then died.

A friend an I tore it down and found the problems and we put the whole thing back together and no problems after that.

Anyway if i don't do the repair myself I try to watch the work and make sure they follow proper procession.

Charles

__________________
Metal is the material, The forge is life, The anvil and hammer bring character and soul.
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#28

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/09/2008 6:22 PM

Hi everyone again; I guess I ruffled some feathers by asking the wrong questions and not giving enough info about my 2000 Cavalier, so I:ll try again. I first would like to thank Charles and all who came to my defence. I guess theres a lot of realy , realy smart people out there ,sorry. My Cavalier has a 2.2 engine , auto trans. 2 dr. My battery is about 6-8 monthe old, that I checked on my charger, that read sat charge.The starter moter was taken to Autozone, and is working fine. That leaves the ignition switch which is where I think the problem might be. The problem was getting progressively worse over the past month or so. When I turn the key on to start, nothing happens for about 30-40 seconds, then it starts. The engine does not crank or (hard strart). The engine seemes to pick and chose, when it wants to start. I purchased the car used from a dealer 'as is' , they will be glad to fix it for me. Tune up was about 2 -3 months ago. Charles, I read your report and I think it scared me (O well) . Thanks everyone ! Rich

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#29
In reply to #28

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/09/2008 6:57 PM

Ignition switch is a good candidate. But, before that, be sure to check the neutral/Park cutout and (in some vehicles) the brake-not-applied cutout switch. Try wiggle testing first before doing continuity testing. If, for example, shaking the shifter, or the brake pedal, or the park brake, works to help start the engine, then you have you problem solved. If you take it back to the dealer or have any other service facility do the diagnostics, be damn sure to remind them to check these things...write it yourself on the work order if you have to...and do not authorize any switch replacement until assured these other things have been checked. Car repair shops and dealerships are not unlikely to overlook these things...and charge you for doing them after they change a switch that could be just fine. (I can't remember how many times I've had to teach dealerships and shops how to do diagnostics correctly...so don't just take their word on things. If they require you to authorize anything beyond the diagnostics, don't comply...or don't authorize more than say about $35, or a half hours labor. That way you stop your losses if something goes wrong. Since you (seemingly) purchased from other than a new car dealer, and as is, you need to be especially careful dealing with them. There's a good chance they already knew about the problem....some problem.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Tenneesse, USA
Posts: 671
Good Answers: 43
#32
In reply to #29

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/09/2008 11:04 PM

Good info on the switches by Guest.

Rich, no problem, just glad to try to help and don't worry about there feathers,that is there problem.

The extra info does helps to get to the problem or closer to it.

the switch thing is important like Guest said also the transmition switch such as in park or in neutral should be the only place the engine should start. If you try the neutral position keep your foot on the break peatel or parking break set.

now to some other things to listen for; on fuel injection engine when you turn the key to the run spot 'were the lights come on' the fuel pump should run for a few seconds

then stop, this pressurize the fuel system.It should sound like a buzz or a hum. Might

need to have someone near the back of the car to hear the electric pump in the tank.

Now what is happing is there is a pressure switch on the engine. Two things the first is;there is a switch on the engine that keeps the fuel pump on when the engine is running. So with that it pressurize the system then cuts off untill the pressure drops then runs again when the engine starts.

The 2nd thing and more than likely is the fuel pump is not starting and pressurizing the system. Now if the car has set say over night and it starts then runs. Say to the store or work then it sits for a short time then won't start it could be the pump can not start under the load of the pressure in the fuel system "and the computer in the car does not get that the pump is working" so no start until the system loses some pressure or the pump over comes the pressure and then runs for the few seconds.

The fuel system can be check with a pressure gage fairly easy.If the pump is going bad it may show up as lower pressure than then spec.

This is just a guess so I need you to be my eyes and ears

Now for another idea that out there... do you know if this car has ever been on a car rental program? If so then there could be an electronic KEY under the dash it could look like a plug modual. It won't be way up under the dash just some were you could reachif standing in the door and be able to reach. The key would unplug very easy. On my wifes pathfinder is had a very intermittent no start and after looking and going through the Switches with the manual I found this plug w/key and after looking and looking could not tell what is was and I talked with parts and service and then they suggest it could have been in a rental program.

so after looking at the contacts on the key they were dirty I cleaned them then sofar

no more problems. With the key in the car starts fine. With the key out no start.

with the car running and key removed no problem then turn off then back to no start.

The purpose of the electronic key was when the car was in there lot no one could take it with out the e-key so if someone made a copy of the regular key they could not steal the car.

Anyway I hope this helps you some. Because most of my auto knowledge comes from

the school of hard knocks and studying manuals over the years and working on my own and helping friends with theres.

Charles

__________________
Metal is the material, The forge is life, The anvil and hammer bring character and soul.
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#34
In reply to #32

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/10/2008 2:07 AM

Charles, we forgot to mention the fuel filter. While manufacturers say these will not need replacement, replacing them periodically is best and they can clog to the point of partial restriction. With proper prep and precaution its an easy enough DIY job if Cavalier owner wants to check back for advise. Unless its already been done (in the last few years or since he bought the car) I would recommend doing it as routine maintenance before taking it into a shop—because a repair shop will mark up the price quite a lot for essentially a job requiring only about 5 minutes, give or take...the ol' flat rate, you know.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7552
Good Answers: 98
#36
In reply to #34

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/10/2008 12:20 PM

Correct of changing fuel filter is good preventative maintenance and most vehicles have two or more fuel filters. My father asked for help with a similar trouble we changed the filter under the hood and then found one in the fuel tank and another in line under the body.

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7552
Good Answers: 98
#31
In reply to #28

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/09/2008 9:05 PM

Hello Guest:

With this new information I would suggest it may be that the ignition system ground lug may have corrosion. Check grounded points to the frame or chassis any repair manual will give a description or diagram.

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#35
In reply to #28

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

06/10/2008 2:35 AM

Here's something else...about the ignition switch...about one cause of gradual failure sometimes encountered.

Sometimes people—it could be a prior owner of your Cavalier—hang key rings with lots of keys, ornaments, bangles and such (lots of weight) on their ignition key. This weight pulling down can gradually cause misalignment of &or rapid wear and tear on, not only on the lock cylinder but, also, on the multiple switch contacts. This and most other ignition key switch failure modes often shows up as a gradually worsening/intermittent problem.

You might try wiggling and pressing down (and up or sideways) on the ignition key (not too hard so you don't break the key off) as you start the engine. If doing this helps make ignition or fuel circuits more responsive (you can observe panel lights, fan, and radio accessories for irregularities, too), then you will have successfully "implicated" the ignition (AKA multifunction) switch....enough to pretty well conclude that's your major problem...hopefully the only problem.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#40
In reply to #28

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

04/04/2010 8:44 AM

Guest Rich: "The problem was getting progressively worse over the past month or so. When I turn the key on to start, nothing happens for about 30-40 seconds, then it starts. The engine does not crank or (hard strart). The engine seems to pick and chose, when it wants to start. I purchased the car used from a dealer 'as is' , they will be glad to fix it for me."

GM had a recall on this. Too much starter solenoid current through the ignition switch could fry the ignition switch. The big issue was safety. So much current was being dissipated by the switch it could set the steering column on fire. Assuming the battery and starter motor are good, this is what happens on some of these Cavaliers when you turn the ignition switch maximum clockwise but the starter motor is not turning.

Check to see if the recall was done. GM's fix was to add an additional relay and section of wire harness under the hood to lessen the current through the ignition switch and mitigate the fire hazard. The recall fix has identifying tags on it. The new, additional relay is to the right of the radiator as viewed from the front of the car with the hood open. The additional section of wire harness necessitated by the recall connects from the new relay to the starter motor, located at the bottom-front of the 2.2 liter inline four cylinder engine.

Bad news is your ignition switch may also need to be replaced. The NHTSA recall addressed the safety issue but GM chose to take the economy approach and not address reliability issues in these Cavaliers by replacing the switch.

Bottom Line. Check to see if the recall was done on your Cavalier. This is your starting point. GM is required to do the recall if it was not already done. But keep in mind none of this addresses the ignition switch, battery cables, integrity of chassis ground-return connections, the park-neutral position switch (assuming your Cavalier is equipped with automatic transmission), or God-knows what else!

Good luck with your Cavalier.

Guest Doug

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2512
Good Answers: 60
#41

Re: Strange Starts for 2000 Chevy Cavalier

05/07/2010 4:20 PM

http://cr4.globalspec.com/search/sitesearch?do=show&sort=textmatchrank&srch=cavalier&order=asc

try these links

Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 41 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (19); bwire (6); metalSmiths (7); OlympiaWA (1); Oreillyair (1); peterg7lyq (1); Skeeter (6)

Previous in Forum: Butyl Inner Tube   Next in Forum: Electricity Costs and Electric Bikes
You might be interested in: Switch Boots, Audio Switch Matrices