Hello rino syahrir

You don't advise exactly what has caused the stains.

There may well be acid fumes from fires or car exhausts in the area.

The 'marble' statues may also not be real marble, but marble powder, cast in a resin.

Real marble is easily eaten into, by hydrochloric acid, and the stone 'fizzes', as Hydrogen gas is given off. (Do not smoke as you use this test).

Have a read of this:

<"....This section is from the book "Amateur Work Magazine Vol5". Also available from Amazon: Amateur Work.

To Remove Stains From Marble

To remove stains from marble, mix quicklime with strong lye to the consistency of thick cream, and brush this on the marble. Leave for twelve hours and then wash off.

If this is of no avail, mix 4 oz. of soft soap with 4 oz. of whiting, 1 oz. of soda (sodium hydrate) and 1/2 oz. of copper sulphate in powder, and boil the whole together for fifteen minutes. Rub this mixture, while still hot, over the marble, using a bit of flannel on a stick for the purpose. Leave for twenty-four hours, then wash off and polish the marble.

Oil stains may be removed by applying a paste of common clay and benzine.

Iron rust, and iron ink stains are treated with: Butter of antimony, 1 part; oxalic acid, 2 parts; soft water (rain water), 32 parts. Dissolve and add whiting or flour to the consistence of a thick paste. Apply evenly with a brush and leave for a few days. If the stains are still visible, repeat the operation.

To restore the polish after any of these operations, use a bit of old felt hat wrapped around a bit of wood, and with it, hot water and emery powder, rubbing the marble until an even surface is obtained. The emery powder should be in graded sizes, using the coarse first and finishing with the finest flour of emery, changing the felt with each change of powder. The flour will leave a comparatively fine gloss on the surface, which should be heightened by putty powder and fine, clean cotton rags, finishing with silk. No water should be used toward the last.....">

In corrosive areas, it is common to place marble items into a vacuum chamber, then when all the air has been removed from the porous stone, the marble article is lowered into a bath of molten clear wax, and the air allowed to enter the vacuum chamber.

This method ensures that the marble item may later be 'polished' (It is the surface wax which polishes up to a nice shine).

A cheaper and later method is to paint the cleaned and thoroughly dried marble item with a clear non-yellowing silicone, which repels water from the statue.

Trust that assists you.

Please advise your progress here, with

Kind Regards....

This marble (statuario i mentioned was the white glossy type of natural stone marble) installed on the floor. The leaky stain was came from underneath (My friend said he always go back and forth in that location to check, and none of the worker did some working there, since the room was consider finished and its locked). The stain didn't appear on the surface, instead it spread in the stone vein, it just happen.

He didn't know what to do, and further more want to know how to avoid this in happening again.

Hello RCE

Thank you for carefully reading my above Post, and pointing out my error.

I can't think what came over me, to say that the gas would be Hydrogen.

It must be old age creeping up, tiredness, or reading too many Posts about how wonderful Browns gas is, and how fuel can be saved using a cheap on-board Browns Gas generator.

from me

It is good when readers discover errors, as we are all capable of them.

Unfortunately I cannot Edit my earlier Post, so my earlier error becomes part of history.

Kind Regards....

We don't know the cause, that's the problem.. It happen just below the surface, we thought it came from underneath.

So, I'm not sure we can do much with your proposal, since we think it didn't happen in the surface. (but we will try the one with sodium hydrate, and see what happen, thanks)

For the material (statuario) is a natural stone marble cut in 900mm by 900mm. The color is clear glossy white with little grey vein.

Once you get the stains off the marble, you need to clean the water. I'd think a complex filter system would be necessary, it doesn't sound like money is a problem.

First grab a jar of that fountain water and have it tested, find out what's in it so you can filter it out.

Start with a sand filter to remove any large suspended objects then go to a series of carbon filters to remove harsh chemicals.

INVESTAGE THE CLIENTS CLEANING PRODUCTS!

REMEMBER NO COMPAINTS TILL THE CLIENT TOOK OWNERSHIP.

I understand Syahrir is refering to leakage in Marbel flooring. It may be due to some seepage of water in floor and due to micro porosity in the marbel. I think he should check if water proofing of the building is done properly. Also there is no seepage of water from ground. Suresh Sharma.

Suresh, I think that you are diagnosing the problem correctly.

So the issue becomes the source of the brown discoloration. It sounds as if the underlayment behind the marble may be rich in iron, and improperly barriered (sorry, my word box is low tonight) between the underlayment and the marble.

Or could be exuding from soil if no underlayment barrier.

milo

Good Answer. If the installer chose the wrong type of mortar for the job, then staining from under the marble will occur. This is one of those times when careful reading of the product description is essential, to ensure that it is suitable for use with marble.

I suggest checking with the installer and seeing exactly what was used. I hope that you can recover from this problem.

--JMM

Ok, I understand...thanks guys.

If so, my friend should dismantle the floor installation again, and do another check about the underlayer treatment then. Is the stain on the stone can be removed? and How?

Or, shall he order new pieces?.... well, I think order another piece would be ok...in this circumstances...

The Belgian CSTC recommend this:

For those of you who don't understand french, here is a quick translation. Others will find more details below.

Removing stains:

1. apply a dithionite based kaolin paste overnight,

2. treat sruface with a Mg hexafluorosilicate gel,

3. repolish stone with a cristalizing product or cerium oxyde or a few water.

Repolishing stone slabs is absolutely necessary or stains will come back!

This method was developped for yellow to brown stains that appears in white marble due to dissolution of (micro)pyrite in the marble. This kind of stains appear due to water leaking from mortar.

I guess it should work with your stains in statuario marble since this marble type was tested by the CSTC.

Cheers,

---

8 DÉTACHAGE

Nous avons déjà signalé plus haut que les taches

jaune brun présentes de manière diffuse

à la surface du marbre étaient engendrées par

l'oxydation des cristaux de pyrite contenus

dans la pierre. Il est donc nécessaire de recourir

à des produits réducteurs de fer afin de supprimer

ces taches.

L'utilisation de produits acides est exclues

pour les marbres étant donné que ces produits

dissolvent la calcite et attaquent la surface des

dalles. Ainsi, l'acide phosphorique généralement

présent dans les produits antirouille réagit

avec la calcite en formant de l'apatite

(Ca5[(F,Cl,OH)(PO4)3]) en surface.

La dithionite, une pate inorganique neutre capable

de réduire les composants ferreux, fournit

en revanche de bons résultats et a été retenue

comme produit de base pour les différentes

méthodes de nettoyage.

Une campagne d'essais sur plusieurs types de

produits et de procédures a permis d'établir

une méthodologie de détachage efficace qui

ne modifie que faiblement l'aspect initial du

marbre. Cette méthodologie comprend les étapes

suivantes :

• détachage à l'aide d'une pâte de kaolin à base

de dithionite; les dalles sont recouvertes et

on laisse agir le produit pendant une nuit

• traitement de la surface à l'hexafluorosilicate

de magnésium (dilué dans un gel)

• repolissage de la pierre à l'aide d'un produit

de recristallisation (de préférence) ou

d'oxyde de cérium, ou encore polissage à

l'aide d'une petite quantité d'eau.

Le repolissage de la surface est une étape indispensable;

à défaut, les taches réapparaissent

sur les éprouvettes.

---

The Belgian Scientific and Technical Centre for Building (CSTC) issued a very good guide about marble stains (http://www.cstc.be/homepage/index.cfm?cat=publications&sub=bbri-contact&pag=Contact8&art=120&lang=fr). If you read french, it is most interesting and useful.

I hope it helps.

Hello again, rino syahrir

So your marble is nothing to do with statues, but is a marble floor, it seems.

We used to seal the underlying concrete with a 2-pot industrial resin, to prevent 'wicking upwards of capillary moisture'.

Moisture 'wicked up' will bring up salts of various sorts which will dry on the marble surface.

Marble laid or installed in this way, is essentially ruined, unless you can convince the client that it is a special feature, as other suppliers have succeeded in doing. (refer:http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/258643/Re-Marble-Stone-problem above)

To adhere the marble slabs, we used a special white flexible adhesive, made for use with marble.

This adhesive gave no 'shadow lines' through to the face of the marble tiles or slabs.

The adhesive as I said, was a proprietary one, made in Auckland, NZ.

I'm sure you would have a locally available equivalent, specially for use with marble slabs or tiles.

If your marble is blocks or statues, the same applies, the base support needs to be correctly sealed, to prevent 'wicking up', and the correct non-reactive flexible adhesive used.

Advise further, with

Kind regards....

Ok, it seems my friend get a lot to do for the next 2-3 weeks thanks to you guys. Anyway, another info was the applicator of the marble apparently 'forgot' to waterproof the slab underneath.

Well, my friend has found another team (after firing the previous one) to do the repair and I already gave the all your tip, and he appreciate it.

Thanks for all your support...guys.

Hello again rino syahrir

I should have mentioned that some of the very expensive Carrera marble obtained from Italy, we used to use it here after it had been treated in Italy.

It was ground flat, polished on all edges and one face (the front face which you see after laying was completed), and the "rear face" was roughly ground flat to accept adhesive more easily.

The Slabs were placed in a vacuum chamber, in a single layer, with the polished face lying face down, on a bed of clear wax, and the air exhausted from the stone.

The wax was then heated to melting point, and would be absorbed some 6 or 8 mm into the front face of the marble, at which time the air was allowed into the chamber, the slabs allowed to cool, were removed and the front face re-polished.

Slabs were carefully packed, with plastic between slabs, stored vertically for transportation.

The wax remained inside the marble surface, was easily buffed to an extremely high polish, and the actual wax used has slip-resistant qualities.

The rear face did not have the wax arrive through from the front face, thus accepted the special adhesives extremely well.

It is important to be careful using marble near the sea or volcanic areas, as surface corrosion can be quite rapid, if untreated marble is used there.

EDIT: After checking just now with: http://www.carrera-marble.com/clean.html I find they have stopped using the wax impregnation method, and a double coating of silicone is used instead.

Kind Regards....