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What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/18/2008 1:04 PM

I'm a machine lovin' guy. I think most CR4 users love machines too. When I travel, I'll go out of my way,(leave the pub long enough), to go see some cool ones.

London's a great place to see some very old machines.

The clock wing at the British Museum. The HMS Belfast. The Steam Museum at Kew Bridge, (they fire them all up every Saturday).

In the US, The Smithsonian has many cool machines, The Hoover Dam, The Willard Clock Museum. The USS Massachusetts. So, so many more.

After being around CR4, I've noticed members that work, or have worked, with some very large and powerful machines.

So I ask, what are your favorites?

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#1

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/18/2008 3:16 PM

A particular 1980(and 1/2) Datsun 210 hatchback. She was a transport of Love. *sigh*

Sorry. Reminiscing automotive today.

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#2

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/18/2008 3:54 PM

This has got to be a contender... the Falkirk Wheel for raising boats about 24metres between two canals...there's a video on the link too...(and no Chinese athletes )

Del

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/18/2008 4:36 PM

I'll add a vote for the Falkirk Wheel - brill bit of engineering. Stopped off to see it last year between service visits (Rosyth & Glasgow).

I've also spent many hours in the Science Museum (London, Clock Gallery), just watching the clocks & clocking the watches.

I like beam engines - Crofton Pumping Station is good.

Orrererereies are good too.

Just love the Geneva mechanism.

I could easily go on....

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/18/2008 5:35 PM

Nice vid on the Geneva link..
Geneva?
No she went of her own accord!...errr
Del

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#5
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/18/2008 6:00 PM
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#59
In reply to #2

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 2:45 PM

very pretty, but can it feed power back into the grid?

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 4:21 PM

A quote from the link in #2:

"It takes just 22.5 kilowatts (30.2 hp) to power the electric motors, which consume just 1.5 kilowatt-hours (5.4 MJ) of energy in four minutes, roughly the same as boiling eight kettles of water."

Part of the beauty of the Wheel is that it's balanced - whether there's a boat in it or not, the weight of the (water + boat) on one side = the weight of the (water + boat) on the other.

It replaces many miles of canal (which would have to be constructed), plus enough locks to change the vertical rise by (another quote) "24 metres (79 ft), roughly equivalent to the height of an eight storey building".

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#61
In reply to #60

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 4:47 PM

I should have read more closely. Your rebuke is well deserved.

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#6

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/18/2008 10:39 PM

Here is mine...

2001 Heritage Softail "Springer"...

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#63
In reply to #6

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 9:14 PM

Sweet bike

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#7

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/18/2008 11:26 PM
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#8
In reply to #7

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/18/2008 11:27 PM

Can I get one of these?

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 1:06 AM

Seriously!

The Boeing 707 that flew me out of Vietnam !

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#13
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 1:22 AM

maybe it is still in use in some third world country, kept together with lots of Duct tape

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#19
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 10:02 AM

Same with me...

Both times...

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#31
In reply to #19

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 11:47 AM

Ditto...both times

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#33
In reply to #12

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 12:40 PM

I'd agree, but mine was a C-141...nylon jumpseats and all that...

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#17
In reply to #7

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 9:21 AM

Why do "Breasts" have a down button and "yappin" have an up button?

Avery Montembeault

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#21
In reply to #17

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 10:04 AM

Hey, nothing's perfect, eh?

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#9

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 12:17 AM

my favorite machine is the "history erase button" from the Ren & stimpy cartoon

But seriously i like the machine called car, Nissan Skyline and 1975 Toyata sport 1600ST (because my father had one).

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#10

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 12:22 AM

This has got to be one of the most fun machines I've seen: Theo Jensen

It it a hot contender for my favorite which is the female human body of which I have made a lifelong study.

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#11

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 12:57 AM

My favorite machines:

Babbage's difference engine, the comptometer, harmonic drives.

runners up:

anything with a cam. Any gears, herringbone especially.

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#14

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 4:38 AM

I like the machinery in action, like the Bluebell line.

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#15

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 8:36 AM

The Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn Michigan is the ultimate machine museum. Mr. Ford was a avid collector of steam engines, trains, and automobiles

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#69
In reply to #15

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 7:12 AM
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#16

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 9:10 AM

About 4 or 5 years ago at AirVenture, I saw a portable test stand for 1000HP Allison Engines that a used on P-51 Mustangs. This "one off" machine was crafted from the scrapped compressor section of a jet engine, and oil and water coolers for the Allison. The neat part was the full load demonstration that the company performed a couple of times to show customers the advantage of choosing an engine rebuilder that fully tested the rebuilt engine.

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#35
In reply to #16

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 2:03 PM

I like your comments on a dyno. I once had to run a 492 HP Detroit diesel with no muffler on a dyno that was designed for busses. A long narrow building with a closed back. just big enough to fit a bus. At full load the "song" was beyond belief. The big tires we used just barely fit on the rollers, and threatened to bounce off them and hit the pavement at any second. We started the run, stopped the run, and cleared all people and vehicles from the path in case of a runaway. We completed the test with no problems, but it was quite day for me.

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#38
In reply to #35

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 3:04 PM

A 20 cylinder 645 diesel engine that EMD produced was also an earful in full voice. Engine running at 900 rpm, turbo at 18,000 rpm, . . .

"What did you say? Speak up man!"

"Nothing like the smell of diesel fumes on a cold winters morn!"

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#41
In reply to #38

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 3:11 PM

Eng 2300 rpm. Turbo ?????,???

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 5:01 PM

WADAYA MEAN ya don't know?

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#44
In reply to #42

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 6:56 PM

Some "test stands" dp not have instrumentation to measure turbo speed. Especially with smaller engines.

(no offense Bob, but the 645 engine had 645 CI displacement per cylinder. 20 cylinders x 645 cu. inches = 12,900 cu. inches. Small potatoes compared to some of the marine applications such as Wartsilla!)

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#47
In reply to #44

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 9:21 PM

Not only offended, but humiliated as well. How can I show my face again. I shall have to become forevermore Guest, and hide in shame.

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#18

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 9:58 AM

My first thought was the Ford Museum in Michigan. I see post 15 beat me to it. The great thing about this museum is that it documents the development of many devices thru the years. You can see tractors or sewing machines or many other things as they progressed chronologically.

Its super cool to see how production techniques such as casting methods progressed equipment development, or how power progressed from steam to internal combustion and the iterative process. You do this by standing beside acres of these devices under roof.

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#20

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 10:03 AM

Some really HOT contenders here! I like Pioneer Village, Minden, Nebraska. They have an extensive collection of antiquated farm implements. And any gathering of old steam enthusiasts or antique stationary engine tinkerers. Understanding what went before enhances what we now have.

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#22

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 10:11 AM

See my sig picture!! A CH-47 Chinook, of course.

It's complexity and versatility never fails to amaze me. Even after I had 2000 hours crewing them.

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#23
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 10:23 AM

If we are thinking 'planes... Hawker Harrier

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#24
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 10:33 AM

Not a bad choice for a fixed wing. At least it "hovers".

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#27
In reply to #23

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 10:47 AM

That would be my 6 year old son's favorite!

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#43
In reply to #23

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 5:35 PM

Hi Del,

My favourit plane is the Moquito, the mighty wooden wonder peged together with wooden plugs, even Goring wished the luftwaffe had these!

But my favourite machine of all time is James Watts' original beam pumping engine, it is on display at the Birmingham museum of Science and Technology. It was first placed in Bridge street Smethwick then to pump water to top up the midlands canal network. Now it is steamed up every weekend during the summer months and still works perfectly.

Spencer.

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#45
In reply to #43

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 6:59 PM

Smethwick, is that where Smithwick's Ale originated? I must put that on my "places to see" list!

I also have a soft spot for the deHavilland line of aircraft.

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#64
In reply to #45

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 4:37 AM

Hi Ried,

NO! Smithwicks ale is brewed somewhere in Yorkshire, while Smethwick is a town in the West Midlands, it is near Birmingham.

Spencer.

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#46
In reply to #43

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 8:26 PM

Scapo, is it something like this one?

http://www.kbsm.org/exhibits/100-inch

I've seen this one work at the Kew Bridge Steam Museum. Very impressive.

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#51
In reply to #46

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 4:22 AM

Hi Bricktop,

Yes it is something like. But the stantions, beam and the connecting rod are made in oak that is reinforced with iron bands to help in keeping the wood stiff. The big end bearing is made of cast iron and the 14ft dia flywheel also made of iron clad oak.

It runs so smoothly and slow and still pumps an enormous amount of water with each stroke, you should make the effort to see it sometime. It was first up and running in 1798, and the fact that it is still running today is an accolade to the engineering skills of James Watt.

I have seen the beam engine at Kew, it was a much later version and much still in use as are many of the same type today, there is one 3miles from where I am living, it is still pumping water into a reservoir!

Spencer.

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#50
In reply to #43

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 2:27 AM

Hi,

Those beam engines are great...there's a nice one in Portsmouth (Eastney) which was used as a sewage pumping station...it's open to the public and they power it up...
It's that s-l-o-w s-m-o-o-t-h inexorable power that's hypnotic.

Del

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#56
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 9:13 AM

Hooker,

I saw your sig pic earlier. My dad (deceased) was a Chinook pilot and I attend some of his Vietnam tour aviation company's reunion. The guys that flew have a love for that machine that's amazing. Interestingly, the CH-47 is becoming the B-52 of the Army; still in service way past its originally expected service life, and still the work horse of Army Aviation.

Rick,

Son of a Muleskinner (242d ASH Co)

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#57
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 9:30 AM

My condolences on the loss of your Dad, Rick. The Hooker community is a pretty close one and we all feel the loss, especially from the Vietnam era.

Amazingly, my Hook from Vietnam circa 1970, has been rebuilt several times and, at last report, is currently flying missions in Afghanistan. I expect it will be supporting the troops long after I'm gone as the Army currently has plans to continue their mission into the 2030's. That'll be about 70 years of service since the first one came out of Vertol.

Once a Hooker, always a Hooker. Maybe we'll meet at one of those reunions.

Dave - Geronimo (205th ASH Co) Flight Engineer

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#25

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 10:41 AM

http://www.mondospider.com/gallery.php?tab=photos

My recent favourite machine.

All-time Fav: Saturn V rocket which powered the Apollo missions.

Wernher van Braun was a genius. If it wasn't for him and the hundreds of

Canadian engineers from the Avro Arrow program, the US wouldn't have a

space program.

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#26
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 10:44 AM

Where the mondospider pix taken at Burning Man?

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#30
In reply to #26

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 11:38 AM

Yes, monospider pics were taken @ BurningMan 07 I believe.

UFG

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#28

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 11:00 AM

These Strip Mine Shovels made by Bucyrus Erie and handle 135 Tons at a hitch are awesome. I've been on these in the Southern Indiana and Western Kentucky Coal Mines and actualy designed a modification on the Cable Tension setup to eliminate shock.

They are almost total electric diven and the Hoist uses (8) 2,000 HP Electric Motors that seldom stall no matter the load.

Fun thing to ride on while it is operating.

The 795 Model is the one I am referring to.

http://www.bucyrus.com/shovels.htm?pmc=Ggl

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 11:09 AM

Good shovel - but 'as it got a brass 'andle?

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#32
In reply to #29

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 12:38 PM

Kris - that's "fork 'andle" innit?

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#34
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 1:07 PM
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#66
In reply to #34

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 6:08 AM

Oh, THAT brass 'andle, then! Right, got it...by the way, I think that was the blackest coal I've ever seen, what?

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#36
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 2:05 PM

Disregard my previous post on the Bucyrus Shovel.

I was actually referring to a Mairion 6360 type Shovel. I can'tfind a picture of it but here is a link to a site explaining some of the specifications of that line of equipment.

http://www.bucyrus.com/shovels.htm?pmc=Ggl

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#37

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 2:22 PM

There is a building near where I work that is run by Wartsilla. They manufacture HUGE power plants used in ship propulsion and generators. In the showroom is a two story engine that is one of their smaller units. I am always amazed bu this type oh large scale equipment.

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#39
In reply to #37

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 3:06 PM

Do they offer tours?

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#40
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 3:10 PM

I'll stop this week and find out. Will send reply. Pics if I can work it out.

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#88
In reply to #39

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 8:30 PM

Some one went past the Wartsila facility today. It appears to be some kind of training facility. In the large room with all the windows there are 5 or 6 different engines in various states of assembly, plus many internal parts on the floor. There is a turbocharger two feet in diameter. The place was closed already.

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#48

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 10:20 PM

The yamato battleship, although never properly used

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_class_battleship

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#49

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/19/2008 11:05 PM

Goliath - The mother of all cranes (largest in North America) at Fore River Shipyard, Quincy, MA. Thirty stories high with a capacity of 1,200 tons.

Link to YouTube Video

Goliath was being disassembled for shipment to another shipyard in Romania on the the Black Sea. Unfortunately, during dismantlement last week she (Goliath) collapsed killing 28 year old Ironworker Robert Harvey.

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#52

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 6:58 AM

<...London's a great place to see some very old machines....>

Quite.

Some might say that London is in itself a very old machine!

How about:

  • Beam engines
  • Vintage aircraft
  • A long flight of canal locks (Caen Hill at Devizes springs to mind)
  • (in London) the original Stephenson's "Rocket" and Hedley's "Puffing Billy" are to be found in the Science Museum, in South Kensington.
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#53
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 7:06 AM

Yeh that flight of locks is spectacular...I only went to Devizes 'cos the name is so good for limericks .

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#55
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 7:40 AM

This summer is the first time, in 15 years, that England was not included in my annual European Vacation. I was there in 2007 for a couple weeks, a wonderful time, but the exchange rate was murder.

However, next month I may be visiting friends in Stratford upon Avon.

http://www.stratford-upon-avon.co.uk/

Has anyone ridden on the Shakespeare Express?

http://www.vintagetrains.co.uk/

I would like to on this trip.

Last year we did Shakespeare's walk:

http://www.cotswolds.info/shakespeares-way-walk.shtml

I like that kind of hiking. Only carrying a day pack, a good meal and a nice bed at a B+B at the end of the day.

Not a machine, but I always visit Kew Gardens when in London.

http://www.kew.org/

I'm glad I made this thread. So many places that I've never heard of, that are now on my "must see" list.

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#65
In reply to #55

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 4:53 AM

Hi Bricktop,

If you are visiting Stratford on Avon this year you should also visit Warwick Castle, this is just down the road from Stratford on Avon and some weekends they have jousting by men in armour.

And if your friends will take you to Iron Bridge you can see the worlds first bridge built in cast iron, there is also a large museum there with a large stationary steam engine.

Then just up the road from Stratford on Avon is Birmingham with it's Science and Technology museeum, there you will see the worlds first rotating (beam) steam engine by James Watt.

Spencer.

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#68
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 6:49 AM

Thanks, Spence, I'll try to check those out.

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#72
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 7:19 AM

Not far from Kew is the Kew Bridge Steam Museum. <Drool, dribble, slobber >

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#76
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 8:13 AM

Ya, it makes for a great day. I like to take the boat ride up the Thames,

http://www.wpsa.co.uk/kew.html

from Westminster, to Kew Bridge, after the Steam Museum, a short walk to Kew Gardens. The town of Kew is lovely, what are the property values there, (looks expensive)?

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#78
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 10:05 AM

If you have to ask...you can't afford 'em

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#79
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 10:14 AM

Well I'm looking. I actually want to retire to England, you know, for the weather.

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#80
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 10:22 AM

LOL

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#84
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 11:36 AM

Ya, and everyone knows English babes are HOT!

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#86
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 12:16 PM

May not be Del's ideal date, though!

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#87
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 12:23 PM

Lucy just loves cats!

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#82
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 10:35 AM

Don't forget the sunscreen...

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#83
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 10:59 AM

to England, you know, for the weather

weather or/not whether???

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#85
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 12:14 PM

Sounds like he's already whethered it out, now it's mostly a case of when!

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#81
In reply to #55

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 10:30 AM

Hey! we have a Stratford on the Avon in Ontario Canada too. Cool place.

There is a Stratford on the Avon in Australia also.

We also have vintage train rides all across Canada. Quite the experience!

I guess great minds do think alike!

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#67
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 6:43 AM

Ahem:

Del the cat has gone to Devizes.

(We'd reckoned he was in Assizes.)

But he's gone to the locks,

Not done up in locks,

To watch all the boats as they rises!

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#71
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 7:17 AM

'Not done up in locks' could be 'Not stood in the dock'?

But I like the last line...

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#74
In reply to #71

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 7:43 AM

Your penultimate line is superior,

"Not done up in locks" is inferior,

But the first and last line,

Must rhyme every time,

Without regard to the interior.

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#75
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 7:51 AM

chuckle chuckle

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#73
In reply to #67

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 7:23 AM

Er, actually:

"There was a young girl from Devizes,

Whose [wossnames] were two different sizes.

One was small,

hardly anything at all,

The other was huge and won prizes."

See. Del really is a very naughty cat.

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#70
In reply to #53

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 7:15 AM

Bad kitty. Baaaaaaaaad kitty.

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#54

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 7:22 AM

Have had much enjoyment with this one.

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#58

Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 11:22 AM

For Commuting ... No more traffic jams

For battle It is definitely the A10 Warthog

For Demolition it is a toss up between the 16 pound sledge and the reciprocating saw.

For cleaning it is definitely 3000psi

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#62
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/20/2008 8:47 PM

For battle It is definitely the A10 Warthog

Yes the A-10

totally unappreciated plane while it does its work so well,is it still in service?

they tried to decommission it a few times.

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#77
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 10:05 AM

According to here

it is still in service with some ongoing upgrades.

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#92
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 10:48 PM

Techno,

Those things are pretty awesome. I just looked up in time to see one passing up-valley a couple hours ago. They like to skim the tree-tops here. We seem to be in a flight training area for a couple of different air bases as we see everything from tankers to B-52s to fighters of various types. As my place is on a mountain side I can often get a cockpit view of the fighters. It's kind of our own private airshow.

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#93
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/21/2008 11:06 PM

I was fortonate to be at Ft. Lauderdale airport for all of the air shows held at Fort Lauderdale. The A10 and the Harriers were always great to watch. Were you aware there was an A10 Demonstration team?

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#94
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/22/2008 12:29 AM

Hi Bob,

No, unfortunately I don't get out much. I kind of have to let stuff come to me. Disabled retirement doesn't pay very well. It's a good thing I picked a good place to retire in. And there's always (well for now at least) the internet.

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#95
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/22/2008 10:32 AM

You lucky S.O.B. I am green with envy

The first time I saw them close up was at the Searwater air show. They did just that. All of a sudden they appeared over the trees, seemed to stop in mid air , attack a target and then scrammed out of there. It was quite impressive. Their design is also impressive with the engines above the wings to mask the heat trail. etc.

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#96
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/22/2008 11:38 AM

I've read that the DOD wants to phase them out in favor of UAV's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmanned_aerial_vehicle

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#97
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/22/2008 12:12 PM

Political foolishness and idealism aside. Once you have seen one of these fly, you would realize there is no UAV currently available that could come close to the A10. The A10 combines armament, handling, armour, stealth, speed, agility, and accuracy in perfect balance. It moves as comfortably around in the air as a panther does on land.

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#98
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/22/2008 12:30 PM

You are absolutely accurate in that assessment! I've watched A-10's do aerial gunnery runs as well as show-off performances, and they are amazing. They can fly so slow, you'd swear they were stationary, and can hold on a target point while circling like nobody's business.

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#99
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/22/2008 12:46 PM

Oh I agree completely. I live near an AFB, and every once in a while a formation of A-10's fly over my house, VERY low. Very impressive!

To keep me from going insane, I like to imagine that 100% of my tax dollars goes to keeping one of these baby's flying.

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#102
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/22/2008 1:31 PM

Listen here Captain, I've been paying for that damn plane for the last twenty years. The least you can do is take me for one stinking ride. Who is your boss? I demand to speak to him at once!

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#100
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/22/2008 1:04 PM

While everything you list is important and true, it's reported top quality is survivability in close air support. Those things have been known to come home with very large holes and chunks missing.

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#101
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/22/2008 1:29 PM

But not of the pilot - they sit in what has been described as a "titanium bathtub".

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#105
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Re: What are your favorite machines of the world?

08/22/2008 1:53 PM

Which is exactly why they can still come home with large holes and chunks missing!!

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