Hello manilaman

Any fuel you intend using needs to be generally available, cheap to store, high in energy content, and reasonable in price, without major alterations to the car or engine.

E10 will require fuel pipes replacement, fuel pump replacement, fuel seals replacement, plus other modifications to prevent engine damage.

In your situation I would install LPG, the tanks not being too large, (Fit them in the boot = US trunk), and there will be experienced LPG installers in your area.

I would do what many owners in New Zealand have done: Retain the existing petrol tank etc,, and install LPG tank/controls/regulator etc with a changeover switch.

That allows you to use LPG, but if you run out of LPG and are away from an LPG filling station, you can then use ordinary petrol from the petrol tank, to get back to an LPG filling station.

Costs are not huge, probably in your area around US$ 2400 (New equipment) should cost for each car, includes LPG tanks/Regulator/Changeover system/Labour and Test Inspection.

Advantage of LPG is the extremely clean burn, and thus almost zero buildup in the lubricating oil of acids, ash etc.

Here we have had taxis running 24/7 and some already over 1,600,000kM and they get engine oil changed around each 20,000kM, with no engine damage.

Running costs on LPG in New Zealand is 46% of Petrol running costs, and because of the almost nil engine wear, and lower oil replacement, the true costs would be around $40%.

From: http://www.switch2gas.co.nz/conversion_costs.html

<"....How long does it take to pay back your conversion...

It can cost as little as $3500 plus GST to convert your car. Investing in a system has many benefits including lower fuel costs, reducing green house gasses by 20% and a more valuable car for resale. We estimate that your system has a residual value after five years of around $1500.

Even without the residal value how long does it take to pay your system off in fuel savings...

High road users 50,000kms plus per annum
payback 12 - 14 months

Moderate road users 25 - 50,000 kms per annum
payback 12 - 24 months

Moderate road users less than 25,000 kms per annum
36 months or more.

(figures based on a car using 12 or more litres of petrol per 100 kms and exclude the $1500 residual value)

Switching your car or fleet to LPG saves you money and reduces green house gases.....">

I don't know what the comparative prices in your area are between petrol and LPG, but payback is around 60,000kM here, and savings increase after that.

Advise your choice and progress, with some photos etc.

Kind Regards....

Thanks.

Dear Manilaman: The way I would go, if in your position; Get a LPG conversion Kit to replace the present carberation unit for Gas. Here many of the Inside Warehouses are using LPG Forklifts & the Engine Used is a Toyota. I would not be to surprised if the Unit they use would fit to both of your Engines. Some Advantages with LPG is Clean enough for Inside Use, No carbon problems in the Engine, ( Very Proven to get about double the life on the engine.) Will watch for your results. Carl

Thanks for your endorsement of LPG Conversion. By far to-date, no one has endorsed other Alternative Fuels - i.e Hydrogen, Water. I wonder why.

Another Bunny!. Dear Sir/Madam- the issue has been covered time & time again!!- yes can use hydrogen with engine mods- trouble is no hydrogen filling stations!. Water is hydrogens ash- takes more energy to seperate hydrogen from water than can get back by burning!. The best fuel, better than lpg, is methane- natural gas- formed naturally by bacteria feeding on organic wastes such as sewage- interesting that Sparky said that upper cyl lubes are needed with methane(cng) but has not mentioned with lpg!. Well, I have auto lpg install & service tickets- the logistics are very similiar- the only motors that needed upper cyl lub had cast iron heads & were thrashed- modern alloy heads with hardened valve seats do not need it. Kind regards, Neil.

Hello Neil Kwyrer

The general experience with LPG or Dual Fuel LPG/Petrol systems is that when using LPG alone, upper cylinder lubricant is not especially required, because the LPG fuel, even after passing through a 2-stage regulator, does not act as a "dry" fuel like CNG.

CNG (which is not entirely methane), acts in a petrol-powered car cylinder as a "dry" fuel, unlike vaporised petrol aerosol from a carburettor, thus with CNG there is the definite need for valve seat plus upper cylinder lubrication, as we discovered after 2 motor rebores, when we were advised of the Moreys auto-dispensing system.

Kind Regards....

I look forward to anyone visiting this site - http://www.agua-luna.com/forum.html?forumID=2029096&page=1&topicID=1055914. Would anyone care to read & comment about what is being said in this Discussion Thread? Thanks.

Hello again manilaman

Which part of the Topic Thread at that website?

It is a discussion about "Hydrogen Generation" on the first page of many.

Is there a particular page or Post you are especially interested in?

Kind Regards....

Reading thru the pages of Aqua-Luna Hydrogen Discussion Thread, I get the impression that a Hydrogen Generator can be made by anyone following Aqua-Luna's Guide - and that Martin's Ranch UtilityTruck fitted with a Hydrogen Generator runs on Water. Martin's Hydrogen-driven Vehicle is no longer a Concept - but already, a reality.

I await your Critical Review.

Hello manilaman

If you want to try the "water-powered" system, please feel free to do so.

The Energy losses far exceed the Energy available to run your car engine on a continued basis.

Therefore the time, effort, expense and materials involved are also wasted.

The "water-powered" car has been discussed often, at and the same conclusion has resulted:

Running a car successfully and continually on Hydrogen which is produced by the electrolysis of on-board water, using only on-board energy for the dissociation of water molecules into their constituent Hydrogen and Oxygen molecules, does violate the known Laws of Physics.

I write this to save you fruitless effort, time, money and sadness at the end of your labours.

If it worked successfully, I would have done it myself, long ago, like so many other researchers.

Kind Regards....