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Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/08/2008 5:33 PM
I need to weld two plates together, one 3/16" mild steel and the other 1/2" stainless, using a wire feed welder and flux cored steel wire or the same welder using an argon shielded solid steel wire.

I have no clue as to the composition of either. I used the magnet test to determine that the 1/2" piece is some type of corrosion resistant steel(it doesn't attract the magnet).

I'm only concerned about achieving good weld strength and don't care about corrosion resistance.

Which process should I use, or am I doomed to failure?

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#1

Re: lynlynch

10/08/2008 7:19 PM

This application needs good weld strength you say? I would hope that if this weld fails it can in no way cause harm to anyone around it.

That said, your metal composition/s is actually quite important when choosing your filler materials. I wont go into great detail on the metallurgy here, as there is simply not enough room. But do check out this site for great information on this subject: http://www.weldreality.com/stainlesswelddata.htm

Some examples: 316-SS to mild steel use 309 filler

302,310,314 stainless to mild steel: use 310 filler material

303,305 use 312 filler

Your argon gas mix will work fine, but i suggest getting yourself some proper wire, IE- somewhere around 309-312 SS. There can be great differences in weld strength due to the filler material chosen to weld two metals.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: lynlynch

10/09/2008 11:34 AM

Thanks for your reply. I'm attaching a brass plaque which is screwed to the mild steel plate and welded to a SS tab at ground level on a sculpture. So the only strength requirement is that some vandal can't pry the plaque off and sell it.

You are right, I'll get the proper wire and have a go.

Thanks.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: lynlynch

10/09/2008 11:06 PM

yep have to agree, use the Argon welding. Flux cored will tend to burn up on you trying to weld 1/2" steel. You will need lots of amps and thick wire (135-150 amps and 1.5-2mm wire) and make sure your polarity is correct as you need to put lots of heat in the thick plate, using the spilled heat to melt the thinner plate into it.

Good luck!

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#12
In reply to #3

Re: lynlynch

10/10/2008 7:24 AM

<

Good luck!>

He will need plenty of that.

By the way--we use close to 500Amps for feeding 2mm wire in MIG/MAG .

Guest
#4

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/09/2008 11:36 PM

Are you 100% certain the 1/2" piece isn't actually aluminum? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would have thought that any kind of ferrous metal would still attract a magnet, regardless of what kind of coating may be on it (galvanized zinc, powdercoat, etc).

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 1:59 AM

Yes you are wrong. Some grades of stainless will be attracted to a magnet, while other stainless grades will not. :)

Score 1 for Good Answer
Guest
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 2:44 AM

Wow, I didn't know that. Do you know which grades are non-magnetic, and why that would be? More pure carbon in the alloy or something?

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 5:15 AM

Mostly those grades w/ high Nickle %ages; EG: 3xx (in USA) stainlesses.

It forces the Curie point below ambient temp; Enough Austenite phase so that it is non-magnetic.

Yes, chilling stainless will make it magnetic, & heating a carbon steel will eventually reach its Curie point & it, too, will temporarily be non-magnetic.

DIY demo to prove this to yourself: Attract a nail to a magnet, heat nail w/ flame devise, watch nail drop off.

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#11
In reply to #6

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 7:07 AM

Rule of thumb: 3xx is non-magnetic. 4xx is magnetic.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 9:22 AM

That's not true.

316 SS will attract a magnet. They won't hold the magnet to it because the weight of the magnet is more then the magnetic polarity will hold with 316.

The 4xx type such as 430 ss is magnetic because you have mild steel with a SS lamination on each side.

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#20
In reply to #13

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/14/2008 6:42 AM

I believe the reference to 'mild steel' as a core is in error when describing a standard grade of stainless.

4xx grades typically have low %ages of Ni, that's why they're still attractive to magnets.

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#5

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 12:43 AM

Hi,

Try using 309 L Filler wire with argon shielding welding procedure. It would have been far more better if you would have been aware of Stainless Steel grade, if it happens to be 316 grade than switch using 309 L with Moly in it, hope such filler wires are easily available around your area.

Regards

fraternally yours

RAJIV DAMANI

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#8

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 4:24 AM

Besides the informed recommendations from previous posts:

I know you said:

"I'm only concerned about achieving good weld strength and don't care about corrosion resistance.

Which process should I use, or am I doomed to failure?",

however I expect corrosion resistance will become very much a factor in a statue exposed outdoors (where acid rain is more frequent than vandals passing by). When (not if) after a few years the weld-mild steel interface corrodes, under the different potentials in SS and mild steel, its strength will be very much compromised, although it will have to be repaired long before that due to deteriorating aesthetics.

Consider using SS instead of mild steel for the 3/16 plate.

...And bolt some great looking (preferably non-metalic) spacers between that and the copper plate. This is a quite usual contemporary method of attaching inscription plates. After a few years, you'll be glad you did.

Good Answer (Score 3)
Guest
#10

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 6:58 AM

Weld together with 312 staintless steel welding wire or welding rod.

Bob Davis

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#14

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 10:47 AM

Why not just weld blots to the back of the plate and bolt it to the sculpture?

Or you could simply braise it using a silver solder Flux compound such as they use in HVAC for bonding dissimilar metals.

Or have some carriage bolts powder coated to match the plate and through bolt the plate to the sculpture, then tack weld the nut to the bolt to fend of pillagers.

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Guest
#16
In reply to #14

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 12:23 PM

"Or you could simply braise it using a silver solder Flux "

Guest
#21
In reply to #16

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/14/2008 6:51 AM

I typically BRAZE metals; & BRAISE meats.

wouldn't fluxed boeuf 'taste funny'?

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#15

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 11:01 AM

Hi,

I know you said you have a MIG welder available, however I do not recommend to use this process, as it is not "clean" it will likely spit little molten balls during welding and may ruin your art!

Use, or have someone else weld with a TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) welder filling with a high tensile strength stainless filler rod, with Argon as a shield, It will give you extreme holding power, and dissimilar metals can be joined ie. mild steel to stainless etc. If it is done properly the visible weld bead can be a statement of craftsmanship, best achieved by an expert with the proper equipment.

As to preventing someone to break or pry it off: I understand that looks and strenght are of importance while not requiring a certified weld. The TIG process will likely also give you the highest strenght in a side by side comparison of similar weld penetration / filler etc.

Further - metals can be coated with copper or brass etc, this may give you more options as to what you are trying to achieve and corrosion resistance. Stainless can be austenitic or martensitic, hence the differences in magnetic attraction, and the naming of NMSS - non magnetic stainless steel.

Alternatively to welding- drill and tap some small threads in the sculpture and clearnace holes in the plaque, ie 1/4-20 or M6X.75, use a non removable stainless screw, or a socket cap screw. Once assembled use a ball bearing and hammer it in the hex opening- it will not likely be removed easily! Pop rivets don't look as nice, but are also an alternative, but I know you are stuck on welding!

Mirco.

Best of luck!

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Good Answer (Score 3)
Guest
#23
In reply to #15

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

09/25/2009 7:23 AM

sorry to say that you can use a mig (no flux ) has less splatter but if you are really concerned as i sometime am then at works i have used carboard to sheild the work . antispatter(not to much) should solve the problem to the point of a little wipe down . just be really aware of your wire speed to heat ratio.

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#17

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 12:44 PM
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#18

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/10/2008 3:49 PM

strider6: well done, thanks for your support to this thread.

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#19

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/13/2008 11:37 AM

Hello, if you are not concerned with the corrosion and it is NOT a weld that could harm people if it fails then just weld it with regular mild steel MIG wire. I have done this many times on furniture and sculpture and so on and it will hold very well. All this stuff about using the 309 welding wire for dissimilar welds is correct but I think they miss the point that you said the weld is only on a plaque. I would like to see anyone try and pry the mild steel weld apart from the stainless and I would be truly amazed if someone could. I think if you know how to use your mig machine then you would have no problems with the carbon wire. I also cannot see buying exspensive s/s wire when you don't really need it as well.

pipewelder

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#22
In reply to #19

Re: Welding Mild Steel to Stainless Steel

10/15/2008 10:56 PM

Thanks!

That's what I'm going to do.

LL1

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ELEMAN (1), Guest (10), Janissaries (1), lynlynch (1), mircoconsultant (1), MUKULMAHANT (1), OldTechNewToys (1), pipewelder (1), rajiv_damani (1), RVZ717 (1), sidevalveguru (2), Stedou73ish (1), strider6 (1)

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