Previous in Forum: ABB ACS600 VFD TRIPPED BY DC OVER VOLT ALARM   Next in Forum: Getting a good earth return using copper rods.
Close
Close
Close
13 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 9

voltage optimization

12/08/2008 3:59 AM

Does anyone have any expierience with "power perfectors"?My company is considering investing in this technology at a considerable cost.The voltage from the 11kv transformer is 250v at the moment and they are pulling about 600amps per phase.There is another tapping on the transformer which would bring down the voltage to 2.5% less than at the moment which we could do by swithching over(we would have to isolate the transformer first from supplier).My company has many vsd's so where would the savings be made?Also i was taught P=V*I so if we reduce voltage my current would increase,wouldnt it?Thanks for any assistance

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: India
Posts: 333
Good Answers: 6
#1

Re: voltage optimization

12/08/2008 5:34 AM
DEAR darren,

the term ' Power perfectors ' has a wide definition....

which equipment you are referring to...

1. Voltage regulators ?

2. Harmonic filters ... active / passive

3. Surge suppressors

4. Reactive Power controllers ...?

With all the above provisions, you can get the perfect Power of correct size and curve. and reliable ... so equipments are not damaged by the supply it self.

Further, P = 1.732 * V * I * PF for 3 phase supplies.

By improvements in Power factor, reduction in 3rd harmonics , operating at little lower voltages shall reduce your power losses in lines and electromegnetic equipments, resulting in savings in power consumption.

__________________
Exploring the Science of Electricity
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member China - Member - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CHINA
Posts: 2945
Good Answers: 14
#2

Re: voltage optimization

12/08/2008 8:09 AM

What is power perfector?

250v? whats country?

what is vsd?

if you hope to regulate voltage, we can offer you large power 3phase regulator at 2mS response.

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 9
#3
In reply to #2

Re: voltage optimization

12/08/2008 9:34 AM

I am referring to voltage regulators,the idea is to drop the voltage to around 230v which is nearer the european standard.We started looking into this as we have some machines from germany with some sensitive electronics (profibus communications from plc to drive board)which kept blowing.Although the problem was with the 24v power supply we started looking at supply voltage which was 250v single phase 433v three phase.The company already has power factor correction so would voltage regulation equipment save money?They have been quoted 50 grand with a five year pay back.Is this realistic and has anyone else installed this equipment?

The country is uk and vsd is variable speed drives

thanks

Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#4
In reply to #3

Re: voltage optimization

12/08/2008 2:19 PM

250V is awfully high for a supply voltage for equipment from England and Germany, it's no wonder that you are having some problems (blown any metal oxide varistor protectors on the 230V equipment have we).

Switching to a lower voltage tap on the transformer would reduce the voltage from 250V down to about 244V (but that still doesn't take into account the transformer voltage sag due to load, or the voltage variation due to natural voltage tolerance at the main supply 11kV). 244V is closer to 230V for German equipment and 230/240V for English equipment.

Before you spend the money for an expensive voltage reduction system (250V to 230V) you should check the voltage tolerances of the equipment you already have. Most of the equipment should run fine once the transformer tap is changed dropping the supply voltage 2.5% (Don't forget to take in to account the worst-case voltage variation on the 11kV supply). For the equipment whose voltage tolerance is a little too close to the operating voltage, consider a simple step-down transformer instead (which will likely be much cheaper, even if you have to get a transformer manufacturer to make them for you (which is a common and fairly inexpensive process)).

Remember, there is no economic point to conditioning (or power quality filtering) the entire factory if your problem is that selected machines are effected by the voltage tolerance issue (causing malfunction or damage).

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member China - Member - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CHINA
Posts: 2945
Good Answers: 14
#5
In reply to #3

Re: voltage optimization

12/08/2008 8:58 PM

you would answer these questions.

Do you hope to transfer 433v to 380v? (singal phase is 220v) or from 11kv to 380v?

Our standard is same as that europe's. no problem

How much power do you want? Kw,

pwer factor corrector is another thing which is different from regualtor.

Most of invertor (fsd) can work at 250v without problem.

but why do you getso higher voltage in UK? but theirs is usal 220v.

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 9
#6
In reply to #5

Re: voltage optimization

12/09/2008 7:38 AM

http://www.powerperfector.com/.

see the link above this is the voltage optimization technology which i am refering to.does anyone have any experiance of it?

Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#7
In reply to #6

Re: voltage optimization

12/09/2008 1:39 PM

(From the powerperfector site)

It's effectively a large transformer performing a voltage step-down along with some power filtering (due to inductance, etc).

How did powerperfector calculate a 5 year payback for your site? Did they perform an actual study of your site, or are they quoting a "guess" they made up. Although the product works, don't believe all the "best benefit" claims as they were on a particular site which was not the same (and probably a lot worse) than yours.

Based on what you have said regarding your site, small and inexpensive step-down transformers on selected pieces of voltage-sensitive site equipment would be a much better economical option than this (which is effectively filtering the entire (or large parts of the) site). For your application using a powerperfector unit would be like "using a sledgehammer when you only need a regular hammer", in that it would work but you are paying for a lot you don't really need or are getting benefit from.

If you can get proper validation of the payback claims and benefits from powerperfector on "your" particular site then it is probably worth it in the long run.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member China - Member - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CHINA
Posts: 2945
Good Answers: 14
#8
In reply to #6

Re: voltage optimization

12/09/2008 8:41 PM

Its pity, I cannt access to the web site. but from the piture picked up by jack of all trades, I think its a step auto self regulator. 5 year payback for your site is sometimes a only advertisement. Im afraid. as we all know the higher voltge the empty load current the larger.

you can go to madeinchina web site for stepless regualtor, which I recommand to sell to you. can decent from 250v to 220v in 2mS response. single ro 3 phase all have.

but you havnt told us how much the power is? so that I can recommand a suitable one.

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#9

Re: voltage optimization

07/18/2009 10:28 AM

Hello

What did you decide about this equipment? I am looking at something similar for a number of council buildings in the UK.

Thanks

RJG

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 9
#10
In reply to #9

Re: voltage optimization

07/21/2009 11:11 AM

the company bought the equipment which has now been in 4 months and will get pay back in 3.5 years according to latest energy bills

Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1
#11
In reply to #9

Re: voltage optimization

09/11/2009 8:23 AM

Hi, i'm Energy Projects Engineer for a local authority in the UK - I have installed 15 of these units this year - any questions get me on allan.campbell@southlanarkshire.gov.uk

Regards

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#13
In reply to #11

Re: voltage optimization

02/12/2010 5:33 PM

Fifteen units and I bet they weren't cheap. There are a number of other suppliers out in the UK market who I am sure would have given greater value for money.

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#12

Re: voltage optimization

10/28/2009 9:40 AM

Please get in touch with Alternenergy who are expert in all low energy solutions. They will survey your building free of charge and give you all the low energy solution you want. The supply and install all the technologisies. They can also get you an interest free loan over three years which usually is within the payback period so you will have no capital expeniture.

www.alternenergy.co.uk

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 13 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Allan Campbell (1); Anonymous Poster (3); cnpower (3); darren221170 (3); harry potter (1); jack of all trades (2)

Previous in Forum: ABB ACS600 VFD TRIPPED BY DC OVER VOLT ALARM   Next in Forum: Getting a good earth return using copper rods.

Advertisement