here's to bio ! (cheers!)

sis boom bah, sis boom bah

go - go - BIO !

rah, rah, rah =)

Garrett -- How about checking your references? I think that "trillion tons" number in that report you mentioned may have grown a few undeserved zeros.

With respect to bioplastics it's worthy of note that the use of food grains in place of petroleum to produce motor fuels has gotten a lot of negative ink recently, and that may well become the case for such precursors for plastic resins. I realize that there are corn farmers who this year have seen their enthanol plant customers cut their demand. But I have a feeling that they may turn out in the future to be a limited source for bioplastic production and that non-food sources will be a better bet.

It would be interesting to see the economic numbers including projected material costs that are used to support your 2015 date prediction. This year's economic world events may have a big effect on the commodity prices that went into that calculation.

Ed Weldon

Ed,

Here is the link to the 2015 prediction..:

http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Packaging/Price-stabilization-of-bioplastics-expected-in-2015

Good informative link. This is an important subject given the growing problem of the trashing of our oceans.

Now, where exactly did the "trillion tons" come from? (quoting you: "One source reports that over a trillion tons of plastic material is used for manufacturing annually.")

This is an engineering forum. Engineers are into the numbers and can be somewhat critical of reporters that play fast and loose with decimal points. We live in a society that is loosing touch with the meaning of numbers. We ought to be careful in this forum with presentation of incorrect information presented in a manner and place where others would deem it credible.

Ed Weldon

Well, considering the fact that I am a process and robotics engineer.. it would probably be safe to say that I based the number off an article from a credible source. It was a quote from an SPE presentation. I am looking for the article and will post...

However, I will retract and say 200 Billion based on this article until I am able to find the other source I referenced:

http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s7228.html

Ed,

Holy Cow! Talk about your major blooper.. I see your point, I didn't catch it the first time around... it is the "tons" reference. I apologize and thank you much for the correction!;)

We'll have to settle for the 200 billion pound reference. I thought I had saved the article as part of an appendice to a business plan for a recycling center... but was unable to find it in my files. After spending nearly an hour trying to locate it through keywords and search engines, I was unable to locate the article I was referencing.

Thanks again for the correction!

Garrett/ 4plastics411.com

I'm interested in your input regarding non-food. Are you referring to switchgrass, or other plant forms? Or are you referring to the utilization of cow water waste from farms? It is going to be interesting to see what direction the material production system takes. With the current projects I'm working in, it is necessary for me to closely watch what happens with the green trend and try to respond accordingly.

As far as the replacement of pertoleum-based resin... it is inevitable. Supplies are decreasing, and although we may never see it in our lifetime, the need for a sustainable replacement is crucial. The potential exists that "green sector" production could be the product of hype... but I'm betting against that. In fact, I'm betting my career against that, and have a long term plan to adjust my own approach of the plastics market to include bio. I don't see any way around it...

I'm not any kind of expert in your field and have not closely followed the development of the various possible biological substitutes for petroleum byproducts. My statement referred to all possible non food biological materials in a generic sense.

The future of any single technology is particularly difficult to predict in this period of economic turbulence. I believe the primary driver for growth of the bioplastics sector will be price advantage over petrochemical based plastics. Be wary of predictions of the world running out of petroleum. It is important to note that the highest order use of that resource is in the petrochemical world. Centuries from now as use of petroleum as an energy source diminishes toward zero extraction of the last remaining exploitable deposits will likely be directed toward petrochemical use.

At the same time growing populations and possible diminished areas useful for agriculture may place a high premium on the use of agricultural land for food production.

The one other important driver in the short term is the problem of polyethylene sheet packing materials polluting the world's oceans. Global climate change research has focused attention on the oceans in general and the public is becoming increasingly aware of the plastics issue. I believe the greatest immediate opportunity for your industry is in replacing polyethylene with materials that will effectively disappear in a short time frame of a year or two exposure to reliable natural agents in the environment.

Just one man's opinion here. Like I said, I'm no expert.

Ed Weldon

This sounds like an Info-torial.

Nothing can beat the feeling, when after three weeks of mixing Masterbatch color agents by hand to color it in the 53 Celsius degree environment.. Nice memories.. Christal is the best, no doubts, and sure we don´t have to worry about the prises eighter.

I also believe in the power of plastics. Indeed the materials of the future, for many years to come.

Biodegradable plastics are close to competitive with polythene now.

My local supermarket use biodegradable bags as standard. the owner told me the price differences is only minor and he is willing to wear it. Incidentally, he still manages to remain competitive with the "big boys".

I found out how effectively these bags degrade when I used one to hold some Christmas lights. Although stored in the dark, when I went to get the lights about 12 months later, the bag was basically a coarse powder.

The biggest problem will be raw materials as these plastics have to compete with food for raw material production space.

With respect to "running out of oil", this has been claimed since the 1930's and has always preceded a general price rise!

Oil can be made from coal and there is no shortage of that resource.

A company in Australia claims that with underground insitu gasification and an above ground Fischer - Tropsch plant, they have a break even point of $25 per barrel. (I'm not sure if that is US or $A)

Petrochemical use of oil is unlikely to run short of raw materials in the foreseeable future.

Non - biodegradable materials can be disposed of in land fill without harm to the environment if they are shredded first. In that case they simply act as extenders, improving the porosity of the soil.