Hello Chrisg288,

I will jump into this one as I have spent the last few days weeping over a query that I made on ethics and morals. I am just kidding, it is fascinating what answers were given and what rated as a good answer. It is hard not to have a me too for some GAs with the danger of the human sheep syndrome.

Basically a GA hits a chord with you. It can be an AWE! at the care a person puts into his answer, along with their sheer mastery of the subject.

The depth of answers with internet and book reference paths to follow and photos to show is a time consuming but wonderful thing that many responders do, day in and day out on this forum.

The consistent humor of some character who 'DEL'iberately poke fun at the all too serious side of all engineers get many GAs

For me some GAs are like a beautiful woman, no matter what a persons background or gender is, there is an unspoken recognition of a stunner. The same with a GA in general.

I am lazy about it sometimes and I have noticed GAs come in a torrent whether warranted or not on some threads while other poor souls have given their best and mighty response but get nothing. I chuckled when I saw a post where a responder demanded his rightful GA total.

As a by the way, I loved your charming poetic entry.

Thats all for now, Good Luck

One I agree with, I believe to be true and accurate, or makes I larf .
Concise and brief scores heavilly too.
Hmmm.. so this one should qualify.
Del

For Guests who can't see it...

"This comment is very useful/insightful with respect to the original Forum Thread"

....is the 'official' definition.

The 'body of knowledge' relevant to a question could extend beyond any sensible boundary. I'm with Del on the Brevity, though some questions require lengthy/detailed answers. Many members do a fantastic job in that regard, and fully deserve recognition. A concise answer is not necessarily one without skill and expert knowledge behind it. The overall principle is well worded by Admin, although I'd like some way of drawing peoples attention to off-topic posts that merit a read by those with a general curiosity about science/engineering. A lot of good stuff is hidden away, but I suppose the 'Search' button works for that, although it would be nice to highlight the especially good stuff. Too many vote options is the problem.

By and large, the GA system works. However....GA's often go to the earlier posts, and in lengthy threads I've seen good stuff go unseen. Perhaps members should have a limited number of GA's to give on a particular thread - as more posts are made, they could withdraw a GA (as is already possible) and give it to a later one that they feel more useful to the OP.

If it happnes, I can go back and plagiarize all Del's GA's !

In addition to all of the fine criteria given above by the squirrel, the cat and the humans, I would add that I have given GA to posts that showed that the responder

"Actually heard and understood the doggone question."

This can be sometimes rare event. I've missed some context once or twice Or a hundred? but generally innocently or because of language usage issues.

milo

It's annoying when a questioner evaporates, but on the other hand, it's nice when they return and say "Thanks people, the posts at #### solved the problem for me".

Another point, is that some replies will be ones that prompt others to think of a specific solution. In that sense, many questions could have many replies that merit a GA. I think I'm descending into (further) insanity over this !

"Actually heard and understood the doggone question."

Yep, that's a pretty good test. Stash another $ in the piggy-bank, milo

Hey I'm still here... just listening.. because in this particular forum... there is no debate per se.. at least not from me. I was sincerely interested in probing your collective infinite minds...

but now that I'm writing.. another question comes to mind... suppose an OP asks a question.. one guy goes and googles it, finds answers, and posts the link... which is the right answer, but even he may not have known the answer to originally.. but he is a good researcher. The next responder knows the answer, posts a concise but true set of statements about it, with little explanation. The next responder also knows the answer.. but 'teaches' the answers in his writing..and doesn't necessarily keep it short.. and the last responder understands but uses his writing to create humour... which enlightens in a different way.. possibly making the subject more fun..

Which of these should be more worthy of a GA do you think?

Chris

The first one with a good accurate post.

Not any of them, necessarily.

we have had a few around here that used to cut and paste google stuff but when a follow up question came through these posters couldn't "git 'er done." Or needed someone to bail em out.

In opinions, maybe thats ok. On something technical like heat treat orconstruction or electrical well, folks could get hurt.

But to your question, just because an answer is "good" doesn't necessarily mean it gets a GA.

So I think that if an answer is 'remarkable' in some way, that gets it a GA.

To me, either the teacher or the Humorist is more likely to get a GA than either Joe Friday "just the facts maam" or the googler.

But the poster that leads with Safety first is on the short list to be considered. There seem to be a lot of people playing beyond their knowledge out there...

milo

Nah, it wasn't aimed at you Chris. It was the many 1-time visitors who seem to do a runner once answers have been posted.

All the scenarios you describe could be GA's. As I (think I) mentioned, we all have different notions of what we find easy to comprehend etc. Hence, a GA is always going to be different things to different people. As rcapper pointed out, Popular Answer would be more descriptive.

A really good answer would take into account the fact that others may have the same question as the OP. Just because the OP comprehends, it doesn't follow that any given answer is perfect. As with a public library, you go to the section of interest, look at the well thumbed books first, but also scan the others for a style/content the meets your individual needs.

The replies to any given thread evolve - further thought is prompted, duplications occur, etc etc. I mentioned limiting votes per thread, so that people migrate their GA vote as the thread evolves. It would be painful to see a GA evaporate, but at the end of the day I think we all want to see the best answers getting the votes. Any wanton plagiarism of earlier replies, would soon be pounced on, though it can be justified in some instances. An individual might summarize existing comment they think good (with due acknowledgment) when adding some additional input based on it.

The Green Thumbs-up should have a little salt on it. It's nice to get them, but I very much doubt anyone is motivated purely by getting them. People who make the effort will find good answers, whether they're indicated or not. Regular users will know where/who to read for informed answers on various topics. I try to read all posts, on any thread I look at, but I'm plain greedy !

The first responder could be me, or one of many others on CR4 I can't think of right now. I do like to research, and Google is a valuable tool for that, but you gotta know/learn how to use it.

Number 2 sounds like Fyz. He posts such good info, but I notice he has to follow up with explanations/corrections sometimes.

Number 3 sounds sooooo much like Blink.

Number 4 would be Del, Kris, Garthh, TexasCharley, Europium, Duckinthepond, or anyone who continues to post on the bathtub thread.

All could be worthy of a GA, depending on the nature of the the OP or the reader.

My apologies to anyone who I didn't mention, but you see yourself fitting into one of categories in Chris's post. It's late and I needs ta gets ta bedd_ddddd.

I wasn't trying to be discriminatory, as I find something in all.. and I'm sure I've done my share of all of them.. plus I'm the guy that will just post pictures and nothing else.. and get called boring by AG...lol

I love this place. My gf thinks I'm a CR4 addict.. really it could be worse... I could take on an anthropomorphic animal persona...lol

Chris

Gf? You have time for a gf??



What's a gf????

Good F**K?

Withdrawing GA's to give to a later post may be a bit too much. What if the later post just expanded on what the first GA person posted? They both may be, in their own right, good answers.

I have also had something similar happen to me. I had wrote a brief explanation to someone and embedded a link to provide further information if they so chose to go there. The next poster (who replied to me) actually copied and pasted a chart or two from the link that I had posted in the previous comment and they got the GA. They didn't even embellish or provide any additional comment than what they had retrieved from the link. I felt slighted. Although there is the possibility that they found the link on their own, I just don't believe it.

So is it fair to take away a GA from a previous post? I don't think so. Both replies can be accurate and insightful within their own right. This is why there is no limit (that I know of) on the number of GA's and I believe that that should be the way it stays.

Yeah, I'd be reluctant to migrate a vote. It's just that I get the impression earlier posts sometimes get undue GA's. In a political election with a long list of candidates, those nearer the top get a higher number of votes. In the Newsletter challenge questions this seems to happen (usually fairly). When the thread is long, people don't read all posts. Maybe just the first few posts, and those already at GA status get looked at. This causes a snowball effect for existing GA's, with good post getting lost in the middle of it all.

I'd have been peeved in the situation you describe. It's happened to me, and I sometimes make a joke/flame at the person committing the heinous crime, but usually not too bad. It can be an innocent mistake from not having read the link you given. If a link contains a lot of info, I don't always read it all. It's quite possible that I've done the very thing that annoys me ! A mild rebuff usually clarifies things.

A lot of the time I can't see the point posting something I know. If it's available on the internet, a link will suffice. Doing otherwise would just create more duplication on the www.

To me, a GA says one of three things:

I endorse that thought because of its accuracy and revelancy.

I admire that thought because of its humor and revelancy.

I wish I had said that!

Sometimes, all three apply.

if we are a textbook, then a GA is a full solution. however, I see so many people here who are floundering about, and unaware of search methods for readily searchable bunches of answers, that I often give a search tree with some terms in it, additive, subtractive and enquoted to act as a carrot on a stick to a rabbit.

Any response with zero energy, no points. Anything with mysticism, gods etc, as a basis, no points

I might be missing something, but can't you use an 'Off-topic' vote to counter/negate a GA you think inappropriate ? I'm reluctant to use 'Off-topic' for anything other than that, but I've seen some GA posts that are less deserving than others. I just vote as I see fit, and leave it to majority opinion

As an example, and intending no disrespect to others, look at this thread. #1 is a perfect answer to the question as asked. #3 puts the information into a more general (and more understandable/useful) form. Both post merit a GA, but the thread (currently) would indicate to the casual observer that only #1 need be read.

Like member titles, GA's need to be regarded in different terms. 'Popular Answer', as you suggest, is more accurate. Whatever they're called, the GA's are usually a good indicator, but it's better to read all (topical) posts if time allows. Not doing so is akin to being spoon fed, and all people have their own definitions of what comes across as well worded/presented.

I also don't know what I'm supposed to do with the Report button... it makes me feel a bit like a school kid, because i got a bloody nose when someone stronger pushed me off the snow mountain, that the grader has made when it cleared the parking lot. (every kid must fight to be 'king of the mountain')

Chris

I hit the thing when I see outright spam - Admin are pretty quick, but I've seen some astonishing garbage. I also do so when I see virulent, unwarranted, personal attacks on people. If I'm on the receiving end, I tend to just slap 'em back. There are surprisingly few scraps on CR4. Again, you can click on the report button to see a definition. It's an option of last resort, but quite justified where there is flagrant breach of CR4 conduct rules that is offensive etc etc. It's to be used when you're as certain as you can be that Admin would delete the post in question. Best done quickly to avoid a cascade of similar posts. Also, the freaks sometimes invade en-masse, and Admin need to know.

I think you do an admirable job of flaming, like that guy on that thread that day, and you let him know where the bear shat in the buckwheat....

Chris

Just to reaffirm your theory, you can use 'off-topic' to counter a GA that you don't agree with.

Also, to follow along with this conversation, I think bad answers would be a bad idea. No one wants to hear that their comment sucks. It would only discourage them from the potential learning they could have received. Also, it just may not be their strong area, but it doesn't mean that they should be discouraged from contributing. Perhaps instead of resorting to a 'bad answer' button, just click reply and share your knowledge. That is why comments were created, so that people can converse. I think that an 'off-topic' vote is enough to counteract GA's.

[Better check the thread again... both have GA's thanks to you! I also began to wonder after looking at it, does just a mere correct answer warrant a GA if people can't follow it? The third poster gave a clear equation to help solve the problem at hand. How do we know that the first poster didn't just guess (although it would be a very very lucky one).]

My line was a rhetorical question

I agree that 'Bad Answer' would suck. 'Off Topic' can do the job.

I saw the change in votes on the thread - it's really cool that you (and whoever else) took a look _{Me 'n' Roger should get a medal of honour on that thread, but I may be biased !}

I agree with most of your post, especially about GAs for wrong answers....

When I see that, I give those an "Off Topic" to reduce the GAs. If anyone else feels that the answer is wrong, they should do the same......usually more will know what is right and we will also be helping those "wrong" people to understand better......

But it will be difficult to find anything better than what we now have....

If I get a GA its great, but I certainly do not expect them......they are just a "sometimes" bonus.....

I have no problems with not getting any GAs either.....they are not my aim in life!!

I hope that any OTs are the ones that I give myself from time to time......getting those from others, especially when they were deserved is not something I aim for!!!

I am with rcapper on this one. I have seen (and probably did it myself) GA's given to wrong answers or else to just show support for someone's point of view. Personally I don't care if I ever get a GA, it really is not what brings me to this forum.

It would appear to be important to certain members and if I am not mistaken I believe that a member left this forum because someone took away all of his/ her GA's - now not wishing to be cruel to that person but surely he/ she has more important things to worry about that the GA's on CR4.

Do we really need to have a scoring system to keep track of what people think of us?

Regards

Mr. W.A Snow

Well put!!

Therefore NO GA for you!!!!

Just when the answer really helps to the poster.So sometimes less information is better than a full theory about,encyclopedy type.Sometimes,GA is made for somebody who just clarifies the missunderstandings what many and confuse answers could get to the original poster.Even so,i like give a lot of good answers not to the best one,to the best links those provides,out of my own principles.-

Sometimes I am more proud of my questions than my answers.

You don't get good answers, without good questions.

I suppose if I was to suggest any particular changes, it would be that the vote area option of voting for the question be put alongside of the GA vote option.

That option for voting for the question does exist, it is just located up top.

Questions, like Can you put a Hologram on a Photon? or What are the Top Ten Sci Fi Movies, or Books, or even my recent PotatoCannon for SpaceJunk Defense question really mean a lot to me whenever they get things going.

In a recent case I wrote Jorrie a private message asking him to look at a thread, knowing that he was an "Expert" in the field.

I think Jorrie has over 2,000 posts and no, great GA score.

Still I knew he would know.

As a comparable category, I suppose it is like how at the Academy Awards they now and then give out a LifeTime Achievement Oscar.

I have considered suggesting "Expert" status when it is apparent, GAs do not fully reflect the value of the involvement by the individual, in the Forum.

A joke among stagehands is: "It all pays the same."

An answer that ensures understanding of a response appropriate to the question asked.

Is that obfuscated enough? To be less succinct, I give a GA, if the answer communicates the needed information to properly, and fully to the degree needed, answer the question asked.

It is possible to 'over answer' a question. Something I feel I do at times, thought I try not to. Some times 'to much data' can reduce the amount of information communicated.

Sometimes a 'second' GA can be one that 'fills in the holes' left in previous responses in cases where the first might be a little two succinct or only answer part of a question (even it it was done well).

The good thing about forums, is we all DO NOT have the same perspective, and some of us need more explaination than others. We educate each other, not just the one submitting the question.

I agree with the above reasons to give or not give a GA (my opinions have changed over time). Another reason that will get me to give a GA is when a poster opens up a new direction or thought (that is accurate) that so far has not been considered.

I regard creativity (when based on sound principles) very highly.

"This comment is very useful/insightful with respect to the original Forum Thread"

This is very good definition, but alas Human interpretation of what is useful & insightful is as changeable as the wind.

(even if it is a simple question)

Hi everybody... These are some of my thoughts:

1) Some answers that are rated as GA are not really "good answers". I.e. someone gives a (wrong) answer, gets some credits by some guys (who don't know well the specific issue or they just misunderstand it) and, afterwards, this answer is proven (objectively) to be wrong. I corrected, once, such a false answer (rated with GA) of another guy and this guy admitted his mistake… unfortunately this answer remained a GA…

2) Some answers are rated as GA just because they are funny. But, beside this, these answers don't offer sth essential. They don't give a serious opinion or a solution to a problem.

3) Some guys don't get the credits that they deserve. This happens because the other guys cannot evaluate (or even understand) their answers.

Someone could claim that the whole issue of GAs is not so important. My opinion is that the issue of GA is good and useful because of this: When someone takes a look in a forum of his interest, usually he hasn't enough time to read all the posts. So he can read only these answers that are rated as GA in order get the "good stuff". But sometimes (because of what I have already mentioned) he reads only some funny or even wrong answers (rated as GA) instead of really good answers. And this is bad.

So, my advise is to give credits only when you are really sure that an answer is absolutely good or if you think that an answer is really clever and gives some "food for thought"… (In the same way I give my votes too…)

[BTW, sometimes a "good question" is more useful than an answer… what about to introduce in CR4 the GQ=good question???…].

Most of the time I give a GA if the answer is correct, concise and contains information to back it up. Sometimes I give Del a GA just for wit. Hmmm, I've given a few other GAs for wit too.....but not often.

In some regards the GA is an over-inflated recognition.

People award them based on their opinions. Sometimes they're awarded just because someone likes somebody else or as a payback for giving them a GA.

About a year ago there was a thread started with a similar topic so everyone was handing out GA's to everyone else.

Thats kind of why I started this thread..so we could maybe perhaps have a common understanding of what the criteria are.. just based on common use and expectations..You are right..we've already beaten its other aspects up pretty bad.. but this is a little more about correcting their use.. why some posts get GA, and others do not.

so what are the criteria? and I'm pleased with what we are hearing...

Chris

As a subscriber to CR4 Daily Digest, I stop in when a see a topic of interest. Sometimes I blow it off. Other times, if I have an answer or comment, I post. If I post, I check back for responses. As a Guest, I have recieved probably a dozen or so GA's over the course of the past year. I do not actually keep count nor can your system keep count for guests (nor should it). There is no GA competition for me, but it is a nice incentive. It just gives validation that someone got something out of your response. As an outsider, a GA is a nice bonus for the effort. If I have something to say that is off topic, I usually check the off topic box myself, so as to not disrupt the thread.

When I first started posting, I ran into a couple of individuals who were hostile to say the least. Because of this I would rarely post unless I had the time to pursue what it seemed would inevitably turn out to be an arguement. I have not seen these individuals around for some time now and for a while I had the ability to give GA's to members, and did so when I saw a good post. If one of you beat me in posting something I intended to post, I would simply give a GA instead of reposting. Although I still see the occassional negative comment about guests, it seems to me that there is less hostility towards guests now. Is this a skewed observation?

At one time I attempted to sign up as a member, but for some reason did not get the confirmation email. Not really a problem, since I honestly do not have enough time to spend on the forums to cultivate the friendships many of you have. But it would be nice if Guests regained the ability to give GA's. Why not allow us to return the favor? Unless you are afraid a member will login as a guest and give themselves GA's. In which case, why do you keep count? Why promote competition among each other?

Please try and join again, there is still some resistance to guests, and not just from me alone!!!

Try to join....please.

It does not matter how often you log in......or how little.

I will to join again in a few minutes....

Perhaps i should sign up as Edgar.

I hope you didn't sign up as Edgar, unless you added something to it. If you did sign up as Edgar, I'd have to find some other famous or near-famous person with the last name Guest, and use their first name for Guest posters. Someone once mentioned Christopher Guest, but that would be too confusing to use that one.

I signed up a half hour ago. Still no email response....

So either the username exists and I'm not getting an error message, or the system doesn't like email adresses with the format:

name.subdomain@yattayatta.net

Have you got a more conventional email address as well?

I'm on, I had to use another email that is forwarded to my primary. But now everyone knows what one possible problem may be,,, the system doesn't recognize certain email addresses.

Sorry to hear about your difficulty getting registered. You should be able to mail CR4 admin direct about this.

To avoid getting 'Edgared'*, you could (for now) just stick a name at the bottom of your posts. I don't mean real name, or even one you'd use when registered. Anything you like.

* this thread will explain "Edgar" a bit.

I think I've found a system that might actually be an improvement on the GA system. I recently created a blog, and each post allows readers to mark it as funny, interesting, or cool. The choices I propose for CR4 are "correct," "incorrect," "interesting," "funny," and "cool." People would be allowed to mark more than one, but not both "correct" and "incorrect."

Hi Chris,

I really enjoy the GA feature.

I personally like to use it when I read something that I find insightful or clever or interesting. It feels good to give someone a GA when you feel they deserve it. Especially if they obviously spent a lot of time presenting something. It's important that we are able to let them know "thanks for your effort, it is appreciated".

Someone said that it is a good way to encourage new members. I hadn't thought of this but that is a good idea. In the future, I'll keep an eye out for newbies good answers. For those of us who have been here a while, we've all let each other know at one point or another that we appreciate each other and I think GA matter less, but for the Newbies, a GA probably is probably encouraging.

The other great thing about good answers is it can be great way to filter you're way through a thread if you're late to the party (as I am to this thread). By thumbing through the good answers, you really get a good idea of what the thread is about.

I hope we see more features like it in the future at CR4.

Roger

I thought of the following:

There is a way to get tens or even hundreds GA in just one day...

How??? Try to find out how this can be possible... take it as a quiz...

I'll tell you the answer later...

The only honorable way to get that many GA's is to use your knowledge to create comments that are well-informed, interesting, and accurate.

Any other way is cheating. Cheating yourself to get ahead and cheating other fellow CR4ers from GA's they deserve.

Of course, I'm talking about cheating...

But can you find the way to do this???...

OK, anybody that gives me a GA gets a 6 pack of my homebrew. Lager, or ale, your choice!

Good deal, Bricktop... I'll have it in my mind...

O.k. the way is this: You can enter the CR4 from other PCs (other than yours) and you can vote yourself (again and again) as a "Guest"... so you get as many GA as you want (from yourself of course)... Am I right???... (I suppose that the several Guests can vote too...)

Of course, it's an unethical, dishonest way and I hope that noone do (or will do) such a thing...

That's sort of like cheating at solitaire init?

Question: can a guest give GA's and OT's? I thought not.

Guests can not give GA's, only registered users.

That's what I thought. What I have seen, (usually in over-unity and HHO threads), is a few proponents of these devices will give a GA to every comment one of their buddies make.

If it is so then o.k.... This way of cheating is not valid... ...

(Sorry, but I thought that Guests can vote too...)

It is possible to sign up for more than one membership. Physicist? was first on here as just simply Physicist. He has signed posts the same, as Fyz, under both memberships.

You could cheat by having, and logging in using, different memberships with different names. To make it hard to detect, you would have to give each "member" a different personality, sort of an intentional schizophrenia, I guess.

Just a clarification in case someone takes my comment wrong.

I am not implying that Fyz has or will do anything underhanded on CR4. From what I can tell, he is interested mostly in discussions of science, engineering, and math. Occasionally, he will engage in humor, and I am usually surprised when he does. Not that he doesn't have a sense of humor, but getting him to use it is a mystery in itself.

IIRC, Fyz wanted the new username because he thought it was more descriptive.

Also, I imagine if someone did cheat at giving themselves GA's, the CR4 powers-that-be will detect it and deal with the offender.

Kris kindly informed me of this, as I had un-subscribed from this thread.

In case of interest, there were two reasons for the change:
First, the missing query was accidental, and "Physicist" way too pretentious - and in any case many other contributors have more appropriate qualifications to the title.
Second, I was not too happy to be Gurufied - though I have now accepted that as an inevitable consequence of placing too many posts.

So you may well ask why I have not cancelled the original alias?
Do I give myself GAs? (You may judge by my relatively low score).
Do I use it aggressively to remove GAs that I consider undeserved? (Even I'm not arrogant or mean enough to vote twice against the same GA).
Did I want to discourage impostors? (Why would anyone wish to impersonate me?)
Is it desirable for there to be transparency that dual identities remain possible?
Did I see any purpose in de-registering?

Funny but fully valid post!!!

LOL!!!!

CORRECT!!!

7 GA's for replying to yourself can end up looking a bit questionable, even when honestly given and well deserved. In the instance I'm thinking of, there's a good case for having an overall 'vote for side A/vote for side B' button.

Think I'd vote A.

I'll vote B:

Oh crap, I just spilled a whole coffee into my key*7&e#@

Kris kindly informed me of this

Del made me do it

The funny side is that you're probably the one person who's occasionally traumatized by a GA - Those rare occasions when you've revised a comment that's already been GA'd. My feeble attempt to hold you to ransom (Venus Challenge Question) will probably come to naught, but I'm too busy here to spend Linden. Note that I did not use the word 'trade'

We all know it's a wast of effort effort taking a valueless vessel hostage - and the only Linden's I've got are the tree in the garden and copies of works by Vaughan Williams (somebody already did) and Schubert.

Yes, I also considered that one can have 2 or 3 different accounts in CR4, giving himself (in one of his accounts) GAs... But I think that this is too extreme (or schizophrenic?)... it should be more likely (or logical?) for someone to enter occassionaly as a Guest and vote for himself (but this can't be done)...

"...sort of an intentional schizophrenia..." Sth like this??? :

GK1 : Hi George... You look so smart today...

GK2 : Thank you George... You look so smart too...

GK1 : Take a vote from me...

GK2 : Take a vote from me too...

..... .....

The solution is to only give GA's to Guests. Members can avoid accusations of self aggrandisement by posting their good stuff 'Anon'. The good posts can still be located, and we retain our discreet modesty.

I've been doing this for the past year and, apart from a couple of slips, it's worked pretty well. Obviously, I can't state the number of GA's I've got as Guest.

Pay up.

Swing by the house on your way home from work and pick them up.

We'll have a few, then you can try out the off-road steam turbine powered gyro Rollerblades I just developed.