Login | Register

Previous in Forum: Welding and ASME Standards   Next in Forum: Paint Booth
Close

Comments Format:






Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







9 comments
Associate

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Gujarat
Posts: 27
Good Answers: 1

Insulation of Valves and Flanges in Hydrocarbon and Hot Oil Lines

05/31/2009 11:43 PM

Dear All ,

In our refinery there are so many insulated lines with Hydrocarbon , hot oil lines service , now the question is whether these flanges of these services should be insulated or not . Operations fears that insulating these flanges will lead to leakage of hydrocarbons and contamination of Insulation will lead to smoke and fire . So can any one suggest or share your valuable experience in the selection of Insulation type and the conditional parameters to be followed if insulation is to be provided ?

Regards

Earnest.

Send to a friend Digg this Add to del.icio.us
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing. Kettle's on.
Posts: 8457
Good Answers: 162
#1

Re: Insulation of Valves and Flanges in Hydrocarbon and hot oil lines

06/01/2009 5:18 AM

Leakage of hydrocarbons can lead to fire, so it is the leakage that needs to be addressed to prevent fire. Most well-run refineries will have rigorous procedures for flange bolting that prevent it.

Insulation will slow down heat losses and gains, and its use has a substantial effect on the economics of operation, as well as having a role to play in operative safety. If one uses the rule-of-thumb that every uninsulated flange costs 3kW, the savings soon justify the cost of insulation.

__________________
An Englishman, an Irishman, and a Scotsman walk into a bar. The bartender turns to them, takes one look, and says "What is this - some kind of joke?"
Guest
#2

Re: Insulation of Valves and Flanges in Hydrocarbon and Hot Oil Lines

06/02/2009 9:35 AM

The issue of leakage and fire comes from the issue of poor assembly and or the lack of timely maintenance. Insulation has nothing to do with fires and leakage.

Guest
#3

Re: Insulation of Valves and Flanges in Hydrocarbon and Hot Oil Lines

06/02/2009 11:18 AM

The fact is that flanges do leak, and when they are insulated, the leak is not evident for some time. Yes, smoke and fires are possible when hot oil leaks into porous insulation. (The oil degrades creating "lights" that have a low autoignition temperature). Non-porous insulation does exist and should be used in this type of service. Not insulating the flanges is another option, but the heat loss can be excessive as well as increased operator exposure to hot surfaces.

Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 89
Good Answers: 1
#4

Re: Insulation of Valves and Flanges in Hydrocarbon and Hot Oil Lines

06/02/2009 2:39 PM

Another consideration should be the temperature of the fluid, vs. the flash point and autoignition point of the fluid.

If you would like to discuss alternatives, please call me at 216-401-1845.

Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8
#5

Re: Insulation of Valves and Flanges in Hydrocarbon and Hot Oil Lines

06/02/2009 11:28 PM

Dear Pau,

I understand your concern regarding heat loss thorugh flanges, but safety first. In my experience of various project of various client using various specification, i have come across one thing common.

"THE LINES WITH HYDROCARBON, SOUR SERVICE, LETHAL SERVICE AND HAZARDOUS SERVICE SHOULD NOT BE INSULATED."

Please get back if any doubt.

Associate

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Gujarat
Posts: 27
Good Answers: 1
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Insulation of Valves and Flanges in Hydrocarbon and Hot Oil Lines

06/03/2009 11:31 PM

Mr mehta,

Thkx 4 ur reply . As per your statement if it is uninsulated and if there is any chance of leak of hydrocarbon , what wil be scenario and also uninsulation of these flanges and valves will lead to more heat loss .

Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Insulation of Valves and Flanges in Hydrocarbon and Hot Oil Lines

06/03/2009 11:47 PM

Dear Paul,

I have worked with process plants, and believe me leakage not only is hazardous but also cause problems like corossion. An insulated flange with such service in case of leakage is difficult to catch attention and only with insulation is not able to hold the leakage, it becomes prominent.

As I empasized before, heat loss is important but not as important as safety. So the flange joints with such hazardous services should not be insulated.

Again for valves, i never say, they should not be insulated. Big valve bodies can be insualted, but not the valve flange joints.

Guest
#6

Re: Insulation of Valves and Flanges in Hydrocarbon and Hot Oil Lines

06/03/2009 1:12 AM

as per B31.3: The ability of thermal insulation to protect piping against failure under fire exposure

(e.g., its stability, fire resistance, and ability to remain in place during a fire)

Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: India
Posts: 100
#9

Re: Insulation of Valves and Flanges in Hydrocarbon and Hot Oil Lines

06/04/2009 12:06 AM

Pl provide box type insulations which can be removed and inspected for leakages in the case of doubts. The insulation should have small hole of about 10mm dia at the bottom right through the thickness insulation so that oil drip can be observed in the case of liquids.

9 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

b v rao (1), earnestpaul (1), Guest (3), mjmehta81 (2), PWSlack (1), THEOILGUY55 (1)

Previous in Forum: Welding and ASME Standards   Next in Forum: Paint Booth
You might be interested in: Insulation Fabrication Services, Band Heaters, Cartridge Heaters