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Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 13

Air Conditioning Compressor

06/04/2009 9:15 AM

Can the compressor on a house air conditioner be replaced with a standard compressor pump like you would get from Northern Tool. I'm wanting to go with an external motor type compressor that could be used with a steam engine. I've seen commercial refrigeration units with external motors and didn't know if a standard compressor pump would work or be made to work. I'm working with biofuels and hydrogen generation for power generation and wanting to see if I could expand it toward air conditioning since the biggest current draw ("and high electric bill") seems to comes from the compressor.

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Join Date: Aug 2007
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#1

Re: Air Conditioning Compressor

06/04/2009 10:04 AM

buy a air conditioner insted of gerry rigging something that will cost more just to get it working, and more yet to operate it

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#2

Re: Air Conditioning Compressor

06/04/2009 1:57 PM

Jerry48 I can't remember the last time I said not possible but forget this proposal and move on now. Jerrell

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#3

Re: Air Conditioning Compressor

06/05/2009 12:52 AM

No Way. Ac Compressors pump Refrigerant and air compressors pump air.

Associate

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 34
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#4

Re: Air Conditioning Compressor

06/05/2009 5:56 AM

Air Conditioning compressors are designed to compressor a certain refrigerant from pressure "A" to pressure "B." Your air compressor is designed to compress vapor from pressure "C" to pressure "D." Also, the refrigerant would probably destroy the shaft seal, and leak out in a short period. Don't try it.

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Location: Sweet home Alabama
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#5

Re: Air Conditioning Compressor

06/05/2009 9:48 AM

I like your thinking, why not experiment?

Be aware that

1. all rotary seals leak, perhaps consider a pancake or diaphragm compressor would be better if you don't want constant recharging.

2. materials of construction should be evaluated for the refrigerant and oils. They are different than air. (not just metal parts but O rings all whetted elastomeric)

3. Perhaps consider automotive A/Compressor, especially if you are driving it with a home made motor. They work and take a lot of abuse.

4. The compressors in house air conditioners have gone through generations of fine tuning for the application, cost, operating conditions and are pretty reliable. You have a challenge to improve on it.

Don't think there is no better way. I bet most of the designs are just copies of someone else's design, without rethinking the application.

If your experiments work, post it here and good luck.

Good Answer (Score 3)
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 13
#8
In reply to #5

Re: Air Conditioning Compressor

06/05/2009 1:58 PM

Hey thanks for your response. An automotive air conditioning compressor was my first choice. After seeing how small the evaporative coil was on a car and how big the one on the house is I thought there might be a problem with not enough volume output but you've cleared the air on that for me. That's the direction to go then I see, didn't know all the problems with the air compressor pump, just thought I would throw the idea out there, I'll stay away from that, thanks. I've seen so many differant ideas out there for differant kinds of air conditioners. The standard air conditioner was a great invention, just try to get away from that big current draw compressor, and I've seen early models that have seperate motor and compressor but you don't see the anymore, guess because of the leaky seal problem. With the new 134a that doesn't hurt the enviroment, adding from time to time doesn't seem like that bad of a trade off. Thanks again

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#6

Re: Air Conditioning Compressor

06/05/2009 12:28 PM

As already said by Paddler,any automotive A/C compressor may be used ,but,watch the parameters :power,rpm,max pressure to fit your refrigeration fluid parameters and also the heat exchangers capacities.

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#7

Re: Air Conditioning Compressor

06/05/2009 12:32 PM

Hi Jerry,

A normal Air compressor will not work because of the seals oils and related pressures of the refrigerants. Most house Air-conditioners are still using R-22 refrigerant, R-134a or a similar replacement and can have pressures of over 300psi on a hot day.

I suggest you use a Automotive Compressor like a SANDEN or CCI that has the capability of handling the pressures and has the correct seals for refrigerants. These type of Compressors can have a lot of diffierent drive arrangements. You can Belst drive or direct couple. Use a clutch or and unloader to cycle the system as required.

Depending on the tonnage or BTU capacity of the Air- Conditioning system will determine the cubic inch displacement and RPM you will have to run the compressor.

Most of the 8" - 10" compressor will deliver 30,000 btus of cooling at 80 deg Wet Bulb! But RPM is the key!

So I think you can do this just do some math and give it a try!

If you need help let me know!

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#9

Re: Air Conditioning Compressor

06/10/2009 7:31 PM

If you've got steam, especially if you're already using it in a combined heat and power system, why not think about a steam absorption chiller? http://www.cogeneration.net/Absorption_Chillers.htm

Otherwise, if you have a steam engine for mechanical power, so long as whatever refrigerant compressor you use is turning at the correct RPM, it doesn't care what powers it.

Working on biomass-fueled steam power myself.

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Power-User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweet home Alabama
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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Air Conditioning Compressor

06/11/2009 10:09 AM

Mark,

Keep us posted on your success. I think your approach is very good (keep it simple and manageable). and would like to learn from it. I can see a need to avoid compression if possible. My application is in the deep south so my needs are a bit different.

Paddler

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Air Conditioning Compressor

06/12/2009 7:49 PM

Thanks. Mostly working in this thread here: http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/38163/disc-design-for-boundary-layer-turbine-rotor

Our project is to convert a diesel-electric locomotive to a steam turbine locomotive powered by biomass (woodchips, etc.)

The KISS principle is part of our design philosophy. Nice if modern technology can save you $1,000 a year in fuel costs, but if you have to spend $2,000 in capital and maintenance costs to get it, you lose. Shooting for beating diesels on total cost per horsepower/hour, with lower emissions and carbon-neutral fuel.

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Gadget Guy (1), Guest (1), Jerrell Conway (1), Jerry48 (1), JWSFM (1), Mark Stockman (2), nemesis (1), Paddler (2), phoenix911 (1)

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