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Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/04/2009 8:18 PM

Hi everyone can you shed some light on carbon emmission,on diesel (LFO) in comparison to (HFO) fuel should i make a switch.I am currently using two gensets at a base load of 10 MW continuously for a year(60 gallons per megawatt an hour diesel LFO) rough estimate.How much carbon do i emitt now with LFO and how much will i emitt after with HFO. my gensets are old mirlees blackstone

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#1

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/05/2009 6:12 PM

I am not familiar with those ancient diesel engines. The first question is will the engines survive on a diet of HFO, which has as much as 5% sulfur, and lots more sediment and trash in it. HFO need high temperature storage and handling (>250F) and at least 150# steam used as atomizing gas to properly disperse in the fuel spray. IF the combustion performance is equivalent, the total carbon emissions will be higher with the HFO simply because it contains a higher proportion of carbon to hydrogen than LFO. THe difference between the two fuels is about 15% more carbon in HFO than LFO. However, the combustion efficiency of HFO is typically lower by several percentage points simply because it is so viscous that fuel spray has some large droplets that do not completely burn, much less vaporize, and those exit the engine as SMOKE.

TOTal carbon emissions, including refinery energy use, favor light fuels, with hydrogen being the ultimate.

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Keith E Bowers, PMP
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#11
In reply to #1

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 2:03 PM

thanks everyone

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#14
In reply to #1

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/07/2009 3:09 AM

A badly tuned Diesel is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. At lease the carbon in the smoke is fixed and out of circulation. 3rd world should be given carbon credits for this!

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#2

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 3:21 AM

I don't not think it makes much difference Litre for Litre you have almost the same number of carbon atoms so you will end up with the same amount of carbon dioxide.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 3:39 AM

GA for common sense (sometimes seriously missing on CR4!)

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 4:15 AM

There is light at the end of the tunnel! If you give my an email I will send you an article I wrote on the subject.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 4:33 AM

Already sent to your CR4 mail address.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 11:33 AM

I would be interested in that too. Could you share it with me and others as well?

Thank you.

(E.g. You could send a personal message.)

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 12:09 PM

I have posted it to my site www.ecochem.co.za

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 12:23 PM

Thanks. I will have a read.

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#13
In reply to #8

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 10:05 PM

Love your signature. It is so true.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 11:38 AM

Just be sure that the light at the end of the tunnel is not that of an oncoming train!

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#10

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 1:28 PM

The lighter grades of fuel oil have less carbon per gallon, but since they also have fewer BTUs per gallon, this is a wash- carbon output per kwh for your plant would be pretty much the same regardless of grade.

Unless you're talking carbon taxes, I would be more concerned with all the other pollutants from older diesels running heavy fuel oil.

Adding biodiesel to your fuel blend will offset some of your CO2 emissions as well as reducing overall emissions without any major modifications to your plant.

If I were given the job of reducing your plant's CO2 output per KWH, I would consider installing exhaust catalyst units, and an exhaust heat recovery system to generate more power per gallon of fuel, which would reduce CO2 per KWH.

FYI using ultra-low-sulfur fuel (required by catalyst units) in older engines can cause problems due to the low lubricity of ULSD. Adding 5%-10% biodiesel to your blend will restore the lubricity

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#15
In reply to #10

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/07/2009 3:33 AM

Assuming fuel is a pure hydrocarbon then it will have the formula of CnH2n+2. If the fuels have the same molecular weight then there will have the same Carbon content. If the difference in the fuels is that the ratio of low molecular weight (short chain) to high molecular weight (long chain molecule) then there is no change as they will balance out. If we look at long chain hydrocarbons to short chain the the only difference will be the no of Hydrogen Atoms in the molecule (the +2H in the formula) which I feel is of no great significance the difference. Lower Mol. weight molecules will ignite more easily and give a more complete combustion as they are more volatile and this I expect could give better performance. I would expect the carbon emissions to be virtually constant. The old diesels must be pushing out more unburnt fuel and carbon mixed.

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#12

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/06/2009 5:15 PM

This thread is turning into a discussion of CO2 emissions in general. For what it is worth, here are the atomic carbon to hydrogen ratios for some different types of fuels

Carbon:Hydrogen ratios

Wood 10:1

Coal a 2:1

Coal b 1:1

Oil 1:2

Gas 1:4

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Keith E Bowers, PMP
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#16

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/08/2009 9:16 AM

Bloody 'ell,

I would have thought that someone using these forums would know the difference between the element Carbon (No 6) and the various compounds that some people may think cause AGW. The only "Carbon" that diesels emit is the black crap that is put out by poorly designed or maintained motors.

In fact, most living things on Earth are Carbon Based. We are Carbon Units. CO2 is a fertilizer even, without it, no flora whatsoever.

Look up you 8th grade science texts.

Best Regards,

Royce R. Vines

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." -- Will Rogers

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/08/2009 10:13 AM

Quite correct. Suggest you read my comments again. The theme is Carbon emissions not Organic Chemistry.

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#23
In reply to #17

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/10/2009 2:06 AM

Sorry Boer

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/08/2009 10:28 AM

Hello rrvau,

Unfairly, I think, you were rated with 5 off-topic points. I see that all the time that 5 -points are added at once, that must be done by the administrator. I was just about to add my vote for a GA.

Your point is well taken and I fully agree with you. Perhaps the shortness in your answer and the slight sarcasm was not well received but the content sure is correct. I am with you on that.

Don't feel too bad, too many people believe what they read by the propaganda of the politicians and interest groups. I for one do not believe that CO2 is to blame at all. Climats change all the time anyway.

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/08/2009 1:13 PM

He awarded himself 5 points "Off Topic", as you just did and I will too, so as not to be left out!

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/08/2009 1:45 PM

Thanks Andy,

that is interesting. If I only knew the criteria for gaining 5 off-topic points? Is that done by a machine (a programmed reader?) or is actually someone watching.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/08/2009 1:51 PM

No, its if you make a post either to reply to an "Off Topic" post, then you will also be marked off topic (you can negate it if you wish!).

Or you set a tick (the same one as above that you can negate if you wish) in that you want to be marked off topic and you will also be thanked for your honesty.....

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#24
In reply to #18

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/10/2009 2:09 AM

Thank you for your comments Floram, I actually ticked the box labeling my post as "off topic". I was and I offer no apology.

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#19

Re: Diesel Fuel and Carbon Emissions

06/08/2009 1:07 PM

Hello everybody:

trev1: The Clean Development Method (CDM) gives the Emissions Factor for Diesel Generator Systems of 0,8 kg CO2/kWh (0,8 ton CO2/MWh).

Always in the same subject, you can use 20,2 ton CO2/TJ for Diesel fuel and 21,1 ton CO2/TJ for Residual Fuel Oil.

TJ = tera Jouls = 1 million MJ

For Diesel fuel oil, the LCV (Lower Calorific Value) = 42 MJ/kg, and for residual fuel oil, the LCV is 40 MJ/kg.

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