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Line Resolution and Frequency

07/09/2009 12:33 AM

Please help me regarding my quiries which are written bellow.

1. How I can set the line resolution of FFT screen?. The sample rate of in comming signal(Vibration) is 10k HZ.

2.The frequency specification of my accelarometer is 0.2 HZ to 6000HZ. Whwn I do the FFT of this vibration signal, I get frequency spectrum also bellow the 0.2HZ. Please tell me whether the frequency spectrum bellow the 0.2HZ right or wrong.

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#1

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/09/2009 10:51 PM

By the Nyquist criterion, to avoid aliasing of higher frequencies into lower frequency bins, you'll need to set your sample rate at more than 2x the maximum frequency in your measured signal. If your accelerometer is sensitive to frequencies of 6000 Hz, you'll need your sample rate to be at least 12,000 Hz to avoid aliasing. That said, your <0.2 Hz results might not come from aliasing problems, but its a good place to start.

Hope that helps

TinTin

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/09/2009 11:29 PM

Thans a lot for your helps. According to specification of this accelarometer, it can not measure the frequency bellow the 0.2 Hz.But I got the spectrum bellow the 0.2 Hz in FFT analysis. Whether the spectrum bellow 0.2Hz is considerable or not ?.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/09/2009 11:38 PM

If the accelerometer can't measure below 0.2 Hz (a cycle with a period of 5 seconds) - then any results you get in bins below 0.2 Hz are not worth considering, because if the results don't come from your sensor, they either come from aliasing effects or noise sources. My pleasure to help

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TinTin

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/10/2009 5:19 AM

Thanks a lot for giving your valuable response. What I observe in my measurement that at any perticular time the vibration is 30 mm/s but the amplitude(ASD) below the 0.2 Hz is greater than 28 mm/s and above the 0.2 Hz is below the 1 mm/s. According to FFT the sum of all amplitude corresponds to all frequency gives the amplitude in time domain.So can I ignore the spectrum bellow the 0.2 Hz?.

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#4

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/10/2009 1:13 AM

For the first question please elaborate .

For the second question whenever u are calculating FFt what actually the sofware does is it calculates either the asd (amplitude spectral density ) or PSD(Power spectral density ) which will be always in that range .

If u want to check the amplitude at certain frequency band as in if u need " g " Vs " Hz " u need to calculate manually for the specific frequency band .

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#8
In reply to #4

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/10/2009 9:26 AM

How I can select the line resolution of FFT analyser?. I use the FFT to see the frequency spectrum of Vibration signal. I observe that depending upon the line resolution of FFT, the amplitude of frequency spectrum at any perticular frequency is also change. I use the DEWETRON data logger. The data accquring rate of my data is 10kHz.

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#6

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/10/2009 8:16 AM

Tin Tin is right about Nyquist sampling rates but what equipment are you using for the data capture? A good scope should sample at 250MHz but if you are using LabVIEW and some hardware you might have to set the sample rate yourself - if you can get it to 12kHz.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/10/2009 9:34 AM

I use DEWETRON data logger. My data accquiring rate is 10k but the sampling rate of A/D card is 100k.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/11/2009 2:54 AM

Hi,

you need either an analog sufficient filtering in the instrument (your accelerometer) or in-between instrument and datalogger.

So I would suggest to check the accelerometer specification: what output type: analog voltage, analog frequency digitised or what else?

Then decide how much error (x% of full scale) you will tolerate at any frequency within your band of measurement (0.2Hz to 6KHz).

Then search in the output versus frequency curve (either from instrument or from filter after the instrument) at which frequency it has a response of this x% of FS.

This is the lowest permitted sampling frequency.

Without knowing these details I would put a 6KHz second order analog low pass filter after the accmeter, sample with 100KHz and use a next stage of digital low pass filter set to 6KHz or below depending on wanted bandwidth.

RHABE

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/12/2009 2:53 AM

I thing the out put is voltage type because the sensitivity of this sensor is 500 mV/g. As the sensitivity below the 0.2 Hz is less for this sensor so why i get the very high amplitude peak below the 0.2 Hz compare the amplitude spectrum between 0.2 to 4200Hz?

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#7

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/10/2009 8:54 AM

Hi,

"How I can set the line resolution of FFT screen"

the more data points you measure along a (continuous) signal the more lines you will get with a smaller bandwidth per line

"The sample rate of in comming signal(Vibration) is 10k HZ."

the incoming signal should be analog that is continuous, so where is this sampling done:

a.) in the accelerometer, then you have to look if there is an anti-alias filter in the accelerometer, or b.) in your FFT, then too you need first an analog filter to have adequate suppression at the sample rate. Either situation is no good if your accelerometer has a bandwidth of 6KHz.

If you think of a signal (acceleration) with a 6KHz frequency, then you will have after the 10KHz sampler one component at 4KHz and another component at 16KHz. You would not like the 4KHz as it is not distinguishable from your real signal.

"The frequency specification of my accelarometer is 0.2 HZ to 6000HZ"

Usually the lower one is first order and the 0.2Hz is the corner frequency (at -3dB), so there is a considerable sensitivity at frequencies much below 0.2 Hz.

If the sensitivity well above fmin is 1 then the sensitivity at fmin is near 0.7 and the sensitivity at 0.1 x fmin is 0.07! (and so on).

Usually the higher frequency limit is filtered with a second order filter - either the accelerometer itself by its mass and stiffness or in the electronics - look at the specification if this is true or if you have a different situation.

If so then the sensitivity at fmax is 0.7 and the sensitivity at 10 x fmax is still 0.007 - which may be much too high if you want really good measurements.

So if you sample with 10 fmax (60KHz) then there will be aliasing errors of 0.7% of the amplitude of the 60KHz vibration! This will fold down to zero and you will see this as either true 0 Hz if the signal and the sampling frequency have exactly equal frequency and no phase drift, in reality there will be a slow frequency difference that will be shown in your sampled signal. So what you see below 0.2 Hz is a.) the real signal at these frequencies multiplied by the sensitivity of the accelerometer at these frequencies plus the aliased component from 0.2Hz above and below the sampling-frequency.

Thus you see that the Nyquist criterion is not at all sufficient for a good measurement!

Have a look also at the basic books, Brigham is my recommendation.

(The FFT and its application.)

RHABE

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Line Resolution and Frequency

07/10/2009 10:43 PM

That was a comprehensive treatment of the problem Rhabe; technically thorough yet explained with simplicity - GA to you!

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