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Commentator

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 56

SA 516 Grade 70 Steels

08/08/2009 9:16 PM

Dear All,

In term of technically(strength, corrosion, etc) what is anvantage of carbon steel SA 516 Gr.70Normalised compare to SA 516 Gr.70. Could anyone describe to me.

Your all cooperation are appreciated.

Thank you.

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#1

Re: Advantage of SA 516 Gr.70 Normalised compare to SA 516 Gr.70

08/09/2009 1:32 AM

The plate if procured in Normalised condition will have finer grains and lower residual stress. The strengths may be typically higher (may be even upto 20% higher) than as rolled.

However as per the code, the thicker plates are always in N condition even if not specified. (<1.5")

For us we prefer using >1/2" (12mm) in normalised or control cooled (rolled) condition.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Advantage of SA 516 Gr.70 Normalised compare to SA 516 Gr.70

08/09/2009 4:06 AM

Sorry read it >1.5" and not <1.5".

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Advantage of SA 516 Gr.70 Normalised compare to SA 516 Gr.70

08/10/2009 3:04 AM

Look at this links.

http://www.xlerplate.com.au/go/news/plate-supply-condition

With plate supplied in the Normalized condition the plate rolling process is similar to "As Rolled" plate.... ......The result is a fine-grained structure with improved strength and toughness compared to "As Rolled".

http://www.vacaero.com/News-Info-From-Industrial-Heating-Magazine/News-Info-From-Industrial-Heating-Magazine/The-Importance-of-Normalizing.html

Normalizing imparts both hardness and strength to iron and steel components. In addition, normalizing helps reduce internal stresses (Fig. 1) induced by such operations as forging, casting, machining, forming or welding. Normalizing also improves microstructural homogeneity and response to heat treatment (e.g. annealing or hardening) and enhances stability by imparting a "thermal memory" for subsequent lower-temperature processes. Parts that require maximum toughness and those subjected to impact are often normalized.

There are also a number of papers on this subject. But those links can not be provided (not on free area)

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Anonymous Poster
#12
In reply to #2

Re: Advantage of SA 516 Gr.70 Normalised compare to SA 516 Gr.70

02/13/2010 6:28 AM

what is the allowable stress of SA516 Gr 70 at 290 degree C.

PP

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Advantage of SA 516 Gr.70 Normalised compare to SA 516 Gr.70

08/09/2009 11:38 PM

Some grades of Mild carbon steels are heat treated to improve mechanical properties. They are known as heat treated carbon steels. The heat treatment is either Normalizing (or) Quenching & tempering. (p) In as rolled condition, they give a yield strength of around 450 N/mm2. In the heat treated condition, the Yield strength will go up to 690 N/mm2 along with excellent notch toughness. These materials available mostly in plate form, has excellent Weld-ability and welded with conventional welding processes. (p) When heavy sections of coarse grained steels are normalized, the microstructure becomes uniformly finer (ex: SA 515 Gr Steels) and it will improve their Notch Toughness, so that they meet the impact test requirements at sub zero temperatures. (p) Very heavy sections of fine grained steels are quenched and tempered, so that they acquire a microstructure whose toughness matches that of thinner normalized sections of those steels ( ex: ASTM 516 Gr. Steel over 75 mm thick) (p) Normalized grades can be welded as easily as mild steel without any spl. Precautions. In case of quenched and tempered steels, heat input control is necessary when saw process selected ( general practice for heavy sections) For example, for A 516 Gr, Steels it should be below 3.2 KJ/ mm. (p) The important consideration in welding all these heat treated steels is to select welding consumables and procedure that will give joints of matching strength and sub zero impact values. For manual welding Low Hydrogen Electrodes (AWS E 7018 or -16) are suitable. For SAW (or) similar Processes, high Manganese ( 2 Mn %) or Mn-Mo wire with basic flux should be preferred. (p) Wish U good luck. Sridhar.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Advantage of SA 516 Gr.70 Normalised compare to SA 516 Gr.70

08/10/2009 1:53 PM

"The strengths may be typically higher (may be even up to 20% higher) than as rolled".

Dear sb, I'd like to indicate the ASME code point of view w.r.t the max. allowable stress value S of such a grade of material which used in design equations:

From ASME II, Part D, Tables 1A, the max. allowable stress value S of any grade of material e.g. ASME SA516-70 remains the same at the same condition whatever this material was produced in normalized condition or produced as-rolled.

And by checking Table 1A, you will find that the code doesn't differentiate between the both conditions from S point of view, where there is no indication in any raw nor column denoting for which the material is normalized or not.

So, the code and also me considers that max. allowable stress S of such a grade of material for both conditions of productions (normalized and as-rolled) is the same. Only, normalized material is an advantage which lowering the MDMT (the normalized grade belong to Curve D, where the as-rolled belong to Curve B of Fig. UCS-66) and improving the impact test results especially when we handle a fluids with low, very low (cryogenic) temperatures.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Advantage of SA 516 Gr.70 Normalised compare to SA 516 Gr.70

08/11/2009 2:10 AM

Dear Mr Galala,

The difference between us here is unfortunately cropping up since we though do manufacture ASME PVs, but are not limited to these. My comments are in general and not limited to ASME codes. The applications of these plates and various other plates are for a number of other purposes, where the codes are simply not sufficient.

Instead of making special specification, limited to our company, and that too to the product, we usually ask for the standard plates (eg ASME, ISO/EN10025 etc) with the add ons spelt out in the PO, where we specify the requirements (HT, and that is in a few cases not limited to the Normalising/controlled rolling) where the ASME does not make it mandatory, this requirement is called for by the equipment design parameters and as mentioned these are not governed by the ASME PV Codes. In a few cases special tests (non mandatory as per ASME) are also resorted to.

End of the day it is what the equipment demands, the extra cost of these requirements are to be borne by us/customers/society for the best.

BTW: The OP asked here the advantages of normalising, of course he might be talking purely from ASME angle, but he never spelt it out, so may be that is where the difference is cropping up.

If he limits us to that then of course you are correct.

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Anonymous Poster
#13
In reply to #6

Re: Advantage of SA 516 Gr.70 Normalised compare to SA 516 Gr.70

09/26/2010 4:04 AM

pls send me chemical compositon of same

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Anonymous Poster
#9
In reply to #1

Re: Advantage of SA 516 Gr.70 Normalised compare to SA 516 Gr.70

01/18/2010 1:14 AM

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS THE HARDNESS OF MATERIAL SA 516 Gr. 70 ?

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#4

Re: SA 516 Grade 70 Steels

08/10/2009 1:38 AM

Dear FAIZOL82, please find here my replie(s) to your private message(s) to me w.r.t the comparison between normalizing and nonnormalizing of SA-516 Grade 70:

● The material ASME SA-516 Grade 70 (not normalized) is belong to Curve B of Fig. UCS-66, where ASME SA-516 Grade 70N (normalized) is belong to Curve D of the same figure. The difference is: for the same thickness of material, the normalized grade characterized by its lower MDMT compared with non-normalized grade.

● And MDMT as you know is very important when you make a design for a system handling a fluid with lower temp. like as LNG and LPG.

● So, the MDMT of every part of a pressure system shall be calculated as per UCS-66, Fig. USC-66, Fig. UCS-66.1 and Fig. UCS-66.2, and that value of calculated MDMT must be lower than (or at least equal to) the min. design temp. of the whole system.

I mean if you have a system with min. design. temp. of -10 oC, the selection of any pressure part (or nonpressure part but welded directly to a pressure part) of material must have a MDMT lower than that figure or at least equal to it, i.e the calculated MDMT may be -10 oC or -11 oC, -12 oC and so on.

Important Note. Strength and corrosion allowance remain the same for both the grades for the same thickness. But for heavier thicknesses (even for the same grade), may be over than 2.5" compared with the lower thicknesses, the carbon content must be increased for heavier thicknesses to maintain a reasonable mechanical properties and inturn its allowable tensile strength will be reduced and its MDMT will be raised.

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#8
In reply to #4

Re: SA 516 Grade 70 Steels

08/28/2009 4:07 AM

• The attached file demonstrates how to calculate the lowest MDMT for a whole pressure vessel without impact testing as per ASME VIII-Div. 1: MDMT_Calculations_for_a_Pressure_Vessel

• See CR4 Threads Impact Test & Minimum Design Metal Temperature (MDMT)

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Anonymous Poster
#10
In reply to #4

Re: SA 516 Grade 70 Steels

01/29/2010 9:03 PM

Thanks Mr. Galala For your answers. It clears concepts about Impact test & MDMT.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: SA 516 Grade 70 Steels

01/30/2010 6:04 AM

You are welcome "Guest", and see the following CR4 Thread Impact Tests for Pressure Vessels.

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