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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Is OSB Suitable for Underlayment of Earthscapes Vinyl Roll Sheets?

08/30/2009 1:07 PM

I recently purchased Earthscapes for my kitchen...the flooring company (carpet master) told me all I would need to do is put 1/4" OSB over my existing vinyl tiled floor and put the Earthscapes directly over it without need of glue or anything as its weight would hold it down and the OSB would protect it from floor damage...It almost sounds too good to be true...In reading posts on use of OSB under vinyl I am now a little leary...Is Earthscapes less suceptible to problems?

We will be starting this job in less than 2 weeks...we are installing this ourselves...

Thank you for any information you may be able to give me

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#1

Re: Is OSB suitable for underlayment of the Earthscapes vinyl roll sheets?

08/30/2009 2:19 PM

Here's a site to check:

vinyl floor sheeting and OSB board - Flooring Forum - GardenWeb

Maybe you have been here already.

Good luck

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#2

Re: Is OSB suitable for underlayment of the Earthscapes vinyl roll sheets?

08/30/2009 4:14 PM

Ha, a very pertinent thread as I may be putting some vinyl down shortly.
Previoulsy I've use hardboard which has been fine, and is about the cheapest quickest way to get a nice flat finish.
I don't know if there is anyway to avoid a decent hard underlay over floorboards.
(I've got to put some down in the Mother in Law's bathroom...<groan>, but I'd rather have a job to do than sit like a zombie listening to stories I've heard n+1 times before)
Del

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Is OSB suitable for underlayment of the Earthscapes vinyl roll sheets?

08/31/2009 8:45 PM

"Mother in Law's bathroom"

I have one of those, too. Complete with mother-in-law.

I thought, "when the kids are finally gone",.................... then this.

We'll get our reward in heaven, I guess. Right, sure!

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Is OSB suitable for underlayment of the Earthscapes vinyl roll sheets?

09/01/2009 2:46 AM

Yeah, kids and parents...
Nothin' but trouble

Del

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#3

Re: Is OSB suitable for underlayment of the Earthscapes vinyl roll sheets?

08/30/2009 4:33 PM

After spending 27 years in the flooring trade I can offer a detailed answer.

Earthscapes is what they call a IVC vinyl it is made by Armstrong.

IVC are new to the market so the instruction books are still being wrote, any time they come out with a new product they rewrite the install specs several times within the first few years.

IVC was first introduced as perimeter installation with the 1/8 expansion around the walls.They said you could use double face tape for the install. It was important to put the double face tape in front of the doorways and the appliances. they stated to put it as an X in those areas.

This changed as time went on and they said loose lay with no glue... as different manufactures started producing this style of floor the specs started changing again.

I had noticed the the thickness of the floor would lead to a compression imposed expansion and it had to be controlled I relayed my fears to Lowes whom I was installing for and they ignored the lowly installer.

Soon thereafter the manufacture started suggesting that a pressure sensitive glue be used to control..... the expansion due to compression..... hmmmm

They also started saying the floor could be laid over any substrate.Until then the only acceptable substrate was one free of voids and with a high compression primary face.

Any plywood or OSB had to be overlaid as to avoid seam photographing of the wood joints under the vinyl.

This included Luann, Exterior Grade Luann, and Birch.Launn was filled with voids, the exterior grade was subject to yellowing that would transfer to the vinyl. Only Birch or Multiply was up to the task. (Multiply is 5 ply underlayment with Poplar primary layer).

For them to suggest 1/4 OSB is absurd. Use a 1/4 Birch underlayment with a 1 1/4 crown staple every 4 inches in the field and every 2 inches on the perimeters.You then take a sander with 8 grit paper and sand your joints even.I will then coat the seams at least once with the Chemrex leaving no lumps or globs behind, follow this with a secondary light sanding.

If your existing floor is in good shape there may be no reason to even overlay it. You must be sure the existing floor is well secured to the substrate under it and there are no open cuts or curls. If so cut the the curl out and back fill with a floor leveler like Chemrex or Ardex, they both have a very high compressive strength.

Use a pressure sensitive glue, We call it Peach Glue because of it color.

Precut the the Vinyl to fit the room allowing 1/8- 1/4 expansion on all your walls.Set a wieght on the side you are working on to keep the vinyl form moving as you roll one side back, then roll the glue on the floor with paint roller, besure your end line by the roll back side is straight, allow 45-85 minutes for a "tack time" do not leave pockets of glue nor leave any skips(unglued areas).You will know it is ready when you stick your finger in it and feels tacky but does not come off on your hand.

Take wet rag to reduce friction and push the floor into the glue working the bubble out as you go.

Install the 3/4 round shoe mold around the walls to cover your expansion gap.

When you roll the fridge back on the floor be very careful. We will use left over peices of underlayment to keep the rollers form hitting vinyl until the fridge is in place. Be sure to take out all additional wieght from the fridge first.

I hope this offered you the info you need if not you can drop by my website and send me an email: www.indianafloorsllc.com

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: Is OSB suitable for underlayment of the Earthscapes vinyl roll sheets?

08/30/2009 10:58 PM

Thank you....I got much more than I bargained for but am very appreciative of you input...the task sounds like I may consider an expert in the field to do it...not sure we can handle all of that...

Thank you again...

missjoan

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#4

Re: Is OSB suitable for underlayment of the Earthscapes vinyl roll sheets?

08/30/2009 5:00 PM

I am in agreement with timetraveler from my experiences.

I do not regard OSB as a proper underlayment.

Advantac at 3/4 inch is an underlayment, or even 3/4 inch tongue and groove plywood is an underlayment.

I myself in more than ten years of renovations and construction work have not come across 1/4 inch OSB either.

From my experience and reading what timetraveler had to say, I'd say he knows what he is talking about, and recommend you take his suggestions seriously, even over anything I might have to offer.

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#5

Re: Is OSB suitable for underlayment of the Earthscapes vinyl roll sheets?

08/30/2009 9:50 PM

Advantech is a good flooring. I have not used it but have heard good things.

In the 80s-90s we would lay right over well patched 3/4 tongue and groove interior grade plywood, the chance for plywood seam photographing was an acceptable part of the job, we knew and the customer knew it. At some point in the late 80s the vinyl manufactures started advising an underlayment over the plywood to control this issue.

The first was luann it worked well for a few years until high demand started to bring quality control issues hence the voids I explained above. Then the exterior grade worked fine but as the glues were modified they drew the yellow pigmentation from the moisture repellants into the vinyl if you have seen a yellowing vinyl floor this may be why. If it is on concrete they blamed the yellow glue so the glues started coming in white or an almond color.

There was a time when the install specs would change from week to week with vinyls. one of these was Mannington Gold, this was the first resilient Interflex ( perimeter) vinyl introduced and it was very unstable.Domco, Armstrong and others followed suite with the lessons learned by Mannington, but the product as a whole had many problems and was regulated to the racks at the back on many shops. Some dealers stopped selling them all together.

One week the install spec would say pull your 4" trowel parallel to the wall the next week it would say pull the trowel line toward the vinyl center to allow air to escape while the floor contracted but in the same directions it would say if you could still see trowel marks you had let the glue tack too long, this was an oxymoron, if you had to allow for air to get out it would need to feed between the trowel ridges if you had trowel ridges..... you get the point.

An accepted method for controling bubbles that would form in the interflex styles was apply heat to the bubble then set a block of ice on it.This worked quite well for more than just interflex styles.

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#7

Re: Is OSB suitable for underlayment of the Earthscapes vinyl roll sheets?

08/31/2009 2:46 AM

I suppose a lot depends on the size of the room.
A small bathroom in the UK is much much smaller than a BIG kitchen in the US,( where you probably need a car to drive from on end to the other)
I've had no problem with hardboard for small areas, and no adhesive/tape etc needed at all when using good quality thick vinyl.
Biggest tip is to get it loose laid and let it settle flat before cutting.(Oh and remove cat from underneath)
Del

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Is OSB suitable for underlayment of the Earthscapes vinyl roll sheets?

08/31/2009 10:47 AM

Thanks for the tip....and hmmm didn't know we English had a sense of humor...I have always blamed my lack of it on my English heritage......guess I was wrong...

My kitchen is relatively small...10 1/2 by 14 1/2...

And in my case...I'd have to remove the "dog" !

missjoan

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#11

Re: Is OSB Suitable for Underlayment of Earthscapes Vinyl Roll Sheets?

09/18/2009 7:30 PM

For the most part you're supposed to use underlayment grade plywood. No less than 1/4" and no more than 5/8". When you start getting into larger thicknesses, the smoothness of the underlayment starts to become compromised.

My advise, spend the extra few dollars and make sure it's done correctly, especially if you're planning on floating it without an adhesive. The difference between oriented strand board and plywood is fairly minimal.

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