Login | Register

Previous in Forum: Future Products and Higher Human Intelligence   Next in Forum: Could the Large Hadron Collider Sabotage Itself from the Future?
Close

Comments Format:






Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







16 comments
Member

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5

Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/22/2009 1:42 AM

Is it possible to build a small wind turbine like thing that can run a 2 ton air conditioner unit? If not a turbine, then any other means to achieve this? I live in Mumbai (India). Thanks for any help. - Onkar

Send to a friend Digg this Add to del.icio.us
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".
Power-User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: 39°10' N 91°52' W
Posts: 227
Good Answers: 12
#1

Re: Economical way to run an a/c unit.

10/22/2009 6:28 AM

I have yet to see a home built wind unit that puts out enough wattage to drive even the smallest a/c unit....

here are a few sites you need to check out....


www.scoraigwind.com
www.otherpower.com
www.windstuffnow.com

www.thebackshed.com/Windmill

pay attention to what these fine folks have to say about power output from home built units.

__________________
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it over?
Member

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5
#2

Re: Economical way to run an a/c unit.

10/22/2009 1:56 PM

Thanks Charlie, I shall check out the links you have sent. - Onkar.

Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 156
Good Answers: 2
#3

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/23/2009 12:22 AM

Mumbai is hardly the place for a wind turbine capable of running a 2 ton airconditioner. And then even for open country there is no windmill so far to power an airconditioner. Technically if a windmill can pump water from a well why not compress a refrigerant ? But refrigerant compressors are designed to work on electrical power and most wind turbines are designed to generate electricity.

Power-User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geelong, Australia
Posts: 429
Good Answers: 19
#4

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/23/2009 12:58 AM

It's a good question.

Off the shelf windmills of about 2500mm diameter can supply about 300W of power, for about 1/4 of the time, so to run a commercial sized A/C unit, you'd need a HUGE wind-turbine.

It might be better to spend the same money on passive solar things like, tinting, shades, natural ventilation, roof painting or screening etc.

Good luck.

__________________
If there's something you don't understand...Then a wizard did it. As heard on "The Simpsons".
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Piney Flats, Tennessee
Posts: 1576
Good Answers: 20
#5

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/23/2009 1:00 AM
__________________
If you never do anything you never have problems.
Power-User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geelong, Australia
Posts: 429
Good Answers: 19
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/23/2009 1:54 AM

Or this

http://www.energymatters.com.au/ampair-pacific12volt-300watt-marine-wind-turbine-p-662.html

__________________
If there's something you don't understand...Then a wizard did it. As heard on "The Simpsons".
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 129
Good Answers: 3
#7

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/23/2009 9:13 AM

Considering the limited amount of potential energy available from a windmill we must optimize the efficiency. Having a windmill convert rotating energy into electrical energy, and then sending the current to an electric motor to convert back to rotating energy seems very wasteful.

Would it not be more simple and efficient to harness the rotating energy and directly spin an AC compressor? A vertical-shaft windmill design would make this a simple task. Automobiles all have belt-driven AC compressors so should be easy to source.

Instead of using battery storage for the excessive electrical energy, and an (inefficient) inverter to convert DC power back to AC, you could freeze ice with excess capacity and use the melting effect during peak demand.

I have been considering purchasing a conventional gasoline generator to operate my AC during hurricane outages. I'm instead looking into a compressor design that can be powered directly by the gas engine, thus optimizing the efficiency.

__________________
Specializing in Dynamic Weighing Systems for Powder and Bulk Solids Handling
Guest
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/23/2009 1:00 PM

Thanks Delmar, Your suggestion is very good. I shall consider possibilities in this direction. Onkar.

Guru
Hobbies - Model Rocketry - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tri cities, Washington state Republic of the 50 states of America
Posts: 1910
Good Answers: 30
#13
In reply to #7

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/25/2009 11:50 PM

Would it not be more simple and efficient to harness the rotating energy and directly spin an AC compressor? A vertical-shaft windmill design would make this a simple task. Automobiles all have belt-driven AC compressors so should be easy to source.

Instead of using battery storage for the excessive electrical energy, and an (inefficient) inverter to convert DC power back to AC, you could freeze ice with excess capacity and use the melting effect during peak demand.

I con cur, but for storage I would just store extra compressed refrigerant. For an outside small operation Ammonia will do fine (cheap and high Btu efficiency). But anything of size a failure of an Ammonia system can be deadly unless possible failure is designed to be handled in some safe way.

__________________
(Larrabee's Law) Half of everything you hear in a classroom is crap. Education is figuring out which half is which.
Guest
#15
In reply to #7

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/26/2009 1:03 PM

Having a windmill convert rotating energy into electrical energy, and then sending the current to an electric motor to convert back to rotating energy seems very wasteful.

Would it not be more simple and efficient to harness the rotating energy and directly spin an AC compressor?

That was exactly my logic back in the mid 1970's in Central Mexico. I had an agricultural consulting client who wanted to air condition his living room. We connected a belt driven piston type displacement compressor to the windmill, fed the compressed refrigerant (CO2) to an underground storage tank, brought the compressed gas to the expansion coil via a squirrel cage blower drive connected to the fan that blew the air across the coil into the room, and had a totally mechanical air conditioner with no electrical input whatever. The system was started/stopped by the expansion valve. As long as the windmill turned, the compressor stored the energy in the refrigerant reservoir. As a side benefit, the wife collected the water that dripped off the expansion coil to water her houseplants. The system was still working on my last visit back in 2002.

Guest
#9

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/23/2009 3:45 PM

Hi Onkar, I query why one would think about windpower in Mumbai, I did not think it was a windy place. Wind no ,lots of sun yes. Perhaps you can clarify your operating environment. If you have lots of sun and passive measures as mentioned are not enough consider absorbtion refrigeration (as used in gas and kerosine fridges). Your heat source could be the sun via parabolic reflectors. This would give you the option of storing the cooling energy in brine or ice when not required. Let us know how you progress. Duncan

Member

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5
#11
In reply to #9

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/24/2009 12:03 AM

Hello Duncan, You are giving me fantastic ideas. Honestly I do not know much about the technique of storing cooling energy in brine using the heat from the sun. I will appreciate very much if you could please elaborate and guide me by suggesting a model and the equipment required for such a unit. Thanks. Onkar

2
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 348
Good Answers: 18
#10

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/23/2009 9:32 PM

Home built turbine links above provide the most realistic data.

One of the commercial turbines linked above looks well designed, however, buyers PLEASE read data sheets and charts CAREFULLY!

1.2 meter diameter (tiny!)
25 knots (~29 mile per hour wind!)
300 watts (MAX power out at 25 knots wind speed)

The common trend for manufacturers to rate their wind turbines at max power in high wind is unfortunate. Buyers(and builders) need to review wind data for their region and read the turbine data sheet very carefully to decipher what they can REALLY get from a small turbine.

One would expect a more realistic 60 watt average from this particular turbine. Just enough to run a couple Peltier devices to chill a couple beverages.

Good Answer (Score 2)
Guest
#12

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/24/2009 5:59 AM

Of course it is possible, how much can you afford to spend?

Member

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5
#14
In reply to #12

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

10/26/2009 7:24 AM

A reasonable amount, my friend.

Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 146
#16

Re: Turbine-Powered Air Conditioners?

11/01/2009 7:36 PM

Here in southren Ontario canada, one meter square of swoop yeilds about 100 watts average yearly output, at 80 meters, but only 40 watts per m2 at 30 meters hub hight. The small turbines don't have gear boxes so their generators put out about 10% of what they're rated for (with most designs anyway), instead of 33% of generators with gearboxes. In winter though they generate 2 or 3 times more energy, here where the leaves fall off the tree's anyways. Solar generates 3 times more in the summer, (here in ontario) the grid will pay about 3 times as much for this solar electricity, because it's aviable on peak times, when people are useing their air conditioners it stresses the grid, so I think it's much better to go with solar thermal.

16 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

buzneg (1), charlie_r (1), dadw5boys (1), Delmar (1), ffej (2), Guest (4), mjb1962853 (1), onkar (3), U V (1), Yanthram (1)

Previous in Forum: Future Products and Higher Human Intelligence   Next in Forum: Could the Large Hadron Collider Sabotage Itself from the Future?
You might be interested in: Alternative Power Generators, Wind Turbines, Electrical Power Generators