Login | Register

Previous in Forum: Adviser for getting Europeian Test Certificate for Switchboard   Next in Forum: Earth Resistance - Doubt
Close

Comments Format:






Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







6 comments
Guest

Undervoltage tripping of VFDs

11/01/2009 6:59 AM

We have 03 nos. of Siemens make Micro Master 430 VFDs (MM430, 3phase 415V supply, 55KW (while running current drawing around 92 Amps.) only 02 running at a time with a frequency of around 40 hz, KPT make motors are used for it) used as blower for combustion air. They are specially designed for fan/blower purpose by Siemens itself. We're also having Express feeder in our plant. But some times when suddenely any power dip occurs for about milliseconds then any of both VFDs gets tripped on a fault of undervoltage showing on the BOP (undervoltage is from around 360 to 388 volts for milliseconds). On the other hand we also have Micro Master 440 VFDs in the same plant but they are'nt getting tripped on undervoltage.

Is there any solution to avoid it?

Pl. reply if you have it.

Thanks.

Send to a friend Digg this Add to del.icio.us
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 172
Good Answers: 8
#1

Re: Undervoltage tripping of VFDs

11/01/2009 7:44 AM

If there is a "momentary Powerloss Ride Through" parameter in the VFD, please enable it.

Guest
#2

Re: Undervoltage tripping of VFDs

11/01/2009 10:34 PM

Contact Converteam for Solution support. (www.converteam.com)

Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing. Kettle's on.
Posts: 8652
Good Answers: 163
#3

Re: Undervoltage tripping of VFDs

11/02/2009 4:07 AM

<...milliseconds...>

Bear in mind that, on a 50Hz supply, the distance between the +peak of a cycle and the -peak is 10 milliseconds. If the undervoltage trip is set to these sorts of values, then expect it to nuisance-trip.

__________________
The elephant is a funny bird. It flits from bough to bough. It lays its eggs in a rhubarb tree and whistles, like a cow - Spike Milligan.
2
Guest
#4

Re: Undervoltage tripping of VFDs

11/03/2009 5:03 AM

If the undervoltage level really is 360 to 388V, this should not trip as normal specifications are 380V - 15% so shouldn't be a problem.

Questions:

1. Does the VFD record the DC Link voltage clevel at the undervoltage trip? If so check this and then you can see if this is a real mains problem.

2. If a real dip or loss of supply (most likely) see if there is an effective mains loss ridethru' strategy in the VFD and enable it so it can graw energy from the motor for the small time of the problem.

3. Other VFD's may not be affected for a number of reasons e.g. higher capacity so more ridethru, lighter load, dip is less severe etc. Maybe, if others are machine drives, the load may be quite light relative to their rating.

4. The only other easy way to increase ridethru is to add to the DC link capacitors to build a bigger buffer, is it possible to upgrade this model by changing or adding caps?

Good Answer (Score 2)
Guest
#5

Re: Undervoltage tripping of VFDs

11/03/2009 10:12 AM

Thanx a lot for your precious reply.

I'ld like to add some more info. & let me clear some of your doubts.

For Mr. electricalexpert65-The VFDs has a function of "Flying Restart" with 06 objectives but it doesn't work due to "Ramp up" & "Ramp down" time functions. (We'd tried for that one too but ...... no use). This function works exactly same that you've suggested about "Momentatry powerloss ride through".


For Mr. pwslack - The question arises about measurement of +peak of a cycle
and the -peak of the cycle. If I'm not wrong then in my knowledge, undervoltage tripping depends on the time that DC Bus voltage remains low below the Undervoltage tripping voltage level (i.e. if it remains low below 530V for about some seconds then it trips). If there's any error pl. make me correct.

For Mr. Guest - You are right that operating voltage is from 380 - 15%. Let me clarify you, sometimes it is also observed undervoltage tripping at a voltage upto 394V which is observed on our digital recorder too.

1). Undervoltage measurement is of mains supply of VFD & not of the DC link voltage.

2). There is a pure power dip problem & no power loss. We'd tried whatever you've suggested. Pl. refer my very first answer.

3). Other drives MM440 & others (Master/Sinamics) lies within a range from 1.1 KW to 315 KW with different applications.

Pl. note that, We also have 02 nos. of MicroMaster 430 drives 132KW capacity for fan application, but they aren't tripping on undervoltage.

4). Whatever you've suggested in your answer about adding of additional capacitors to avoid undervoltage, will it solve it? Because in my knowledge capacitor & inductor used in the VFD after rectifier section used for smoothning the DC o/p voltage.

This problem can be solved by not adding the capacitors but adding a huge no. of DC volt. batteries (say around 100 nos.) to the DC link but which could cost a lot. We've seen this impleted in another company.

The main thing is that this problem is also referred with Siemens itself but they also'd given up.

2
Participant

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
Good Answers: 2
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Undervoltage tripping of VFDs

11/03/2009 6:32 PM

If the mains supply is still OK but the VFD trips on undervoltage then the power is coming in slower than its going out.

Is the inrush circuit malfunctioning for a short time?

Are the capacitors worn out or too low in some load condition?

I agree to monitor the DC to see what is happening as this is the inverter power source and also the control supply by SMPS too, I reckon.

Obviously, adding extra capacitors or replacing existings ones with a higher value will help but not if the energy can't get in via the input stage quick enough - is there an input reactor too??

Good Answer (Score 2)
6 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Carol (1), electricalexpert65 (1), Guest (3), PWSlack (1)

Previous in Forum: Adviser for getting Europeian Test Certificate for Switchboard   Next in Forum: Earth Resistance - Doubt
You might be interested in: Circuit Breakers, AC Motor Drives, Supervisory Circuits and Battery Monitor Chips