Login | Register

Previous in Forum: Decoupler Headers in HVAC Systems   Next in Forum: Pipe in Trench
Close

Comments Format:






Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







7 comments
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 34
Good Answers: 1

Differentiation problem.. HELP !!

11/02/2009 8:15 PM

I have been trying to solve (understand) this problem since one month ago..

It's about research paper..

I do not really understand how equation (2) can be derived from equation (3) by differentiation...

Is there any idea about this ?? I attached the *.jpg file.. pls check this out..

FILE LINL :

http://blog.naver.com/nkaier/50075084875

If you tell me how to understand,, really x100 appreciate it... Thanks in advance.

Send to a friend Digg this Add to del.icio.us
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Defreestville, NY
Posts: 642
Good Answers: 48
#1

Re: Differentiation problem.. HELP !!

11/02/2009 9:23 PM

You won't learn unless you figure it out yourself.

__________________
Enjoy every sandwich - Warren Zevon
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 2657
Good Answers: 91
#2

Re: Differentiation problem.. HELP !!

11/02/2009 9:33 PM

Simply (and very briefly) put, make R=0 (a number of terms multiplied by R therefore disappear) BEFORE differentiating, then differentiate and rearrange the equation to group like terms (I think, it's been a while).

Don't forget that when you differentiate sin and cos functions they also change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differentiation_of_trigonometric_functions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_derivatives

Guest
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Differentiation problem.. HELP !!

11/02/2009 10:10 PM

Thanks but.. I tried 100 times before..

I do not know how equation (3) can be derived from equation (2) by differentiation...

I definitely know what the differentiation is, and how to do it..but this problem is not working with general ways..

I never know what I've been missing..

Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 2657
Good Answers: 91
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Differentiation problem.. HELP !!

11/02/2009 10:26 PM

What seems to be the problem? Are you left with a few extra terms at the end or does your differentiation end in a horrible mess?

Is there a mistake in the supplied equation(s) (it happens all the time, be it homework or not)?

Let's start from the beginning. What is the equation exactly? How was it derived and what is its end result?

Is there another source of this particular equation on the internet (be it homework or for a specific purpose), perhaps without mistakes (if any) or more steps between equation (2) and (3)?

Guru
Popular Science - Biology - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Centurion, South Africa 25 51' 20" S 28 12' 12" E
Posts: 3031
Good Answers: 55
#5

Re: Differentiation problem.. HELP !!

11/02/2009 11:49 PM

"I do not really understand how equation (2) can be derived from equation (3) by differentiation..."

The note on the JPEG is "derive (3) from (2).

or is this just a typo?

__________________
This post may contain threaded polydoes .
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 34
Good Answers: 1
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Differentiation problem.. HELP !!

11/02/2009 11:52 PM

derive (3) from (2) is correct. sorry about this.

Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 1736
Good Answers: 40
#7

Re: Differentiation problem.. HELP !!

11/03/2009 2:59 AM

The equation -a transfert function I think- is presented in a matrix form.

So that when you want to differentiate you should consider in fact the terms as in the traditional polynomial presentation.

Example: following system can be presented either as 2 equations or in a matrix form (as equation (2) in your presentation))

a1*x+b1*y=c1

a2*x+b2*y=c2

If you differentiate the 1st equation you obtain:

a1'*x+a1*x'+b1'*x+b1*x' = c1'

which you can group after again in a matrix form.

The best for you is to go from the matrix form to the polynomial presentation, make the derivation considering that all variables are time dependent and then go back to the matrix form.

This way you will better understand why some terms in equation (3) only seem to have no reason to be. I presume this was you problem.

Hope it will help.

7 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Guest (1), Hendrik (1), jack of all trades (2), nick name (1), nzur (1), stevem (1)

Previous in Forum: Decoupler Headers in HVAC Systems   Next in Forum: Pipe in Trench
You might be interested in: Desktop Personal Computers, Handheld and Portable Computers, Video Cameras