Login | Register

Previous in Forum: VOLUME of a spherovaloidal dish   Next in Forum: ECM X13 Motors
Close

Comments Format:






Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







5 comments
Participant

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1

Control Valve Automation

11/04/2009 10:52 AM

Ive been having problems automating a control valve used on a line thats pumped using a Gould's Aquavar CPC. The CPC changes the pump frequency when a pressure drop is sensed, and that changes to flow rate. The control valves react to the flow rate and change positions,causing both to oscillate endlessly.

Is there a way to control the frequency or lock the CPC once a minimum value is reached? Or should I figure out how to increase the time basis for the control valves to work on? Im relatively certain that if I increase the time it takes for the control valve to reach full scale it will reduce the oscillation,but It would still oscillate due to the CPC trying to maintain constant pressure.

Send to a friend Digg this Add to del.icio.us
Pathfinder Tags: automation valves
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing. Kettle's on.
Posts: 8647
Good Answers: 163
#1

Re: Control valve automation

11/04/2009 11:01 AM

This is a controller tuning problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller

__________________
The elephant is a funny bird. It flits from bough to bough. It lays its eggs in a rhubarb tree and whistles, like a cow - Spike Milligan.
4
Commentator
United States - Member - US Citizen - Born & Raised Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Brick, NJ (USA)
Posts: 78
Good Answers: 4
#2

Re: Control Valve Automation

11/04/2009 2:16 PM

mechwarrior-

You have two control systems fighting against each other. The CPC drives the pump speed, therefore the gpm and system pressure drop. The control valves react to the pressure drop and modulate accordingly to control for setpoint and their actuation changes the system pressure drop, etc.(assuming 2-way valves). As one system attempts to control to its setpoint, it affects the second system which, again, affects the other.

Solution:

The CPC should ramp the pump speed to control only the system pressure with a differential pressure transmitter at least 2/3 of the total pipe distance from the pump. (I prefer the sensors to be at the last valve.)

You should have one valve at the end of the loop to bypass a minimum of 20% of the total flow of water from the supply side to the return side. The valve should be actuated by a "high limit" when the pump is at its minimum frequency (or on bypass) and still cannot reduce the pressure to setpoint. This valve is 2-position actuated by the high limit.

The control valves should only control from a temperature sensor with proportional control, only. Leave integral and derivative at "0".

Send more info concerning the system for a detailed solution.

1. Number of valves, Cv of each valve, designed system pressure drop.

2. Pump specifications, GPM, etc.

3. Pipe size of main system.

4. Original design of the piping system & local valves.

__________________
"Memorize the calculations, you look like a fool searching your notes while teaching class" www.innovativelogicalcontrols.com Innovative Logical Controls, LLC
Good Answer (Score 4)
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Anyplace over 100 Deg F
Posts: 543
Good Answers: 21
#3

Re: Control Valve Automation

11/04/2009 3:22 PM

First, determine which of the 2 (pressure or flow), is the more important variable to control.

Second, tune that loop to be at least 3 times faster than the less critical loop. Or the less critical loop 3 time slower.

__________________
I could never join a club which would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ketchikan, AK, USA
Posts: 434
Good Answers: 18
#4

Re: Control Valve Automation

11/05/2009 12:43 AM

If you can find a way to display the P&ID (Piping and Instrumentation Drawing), together with the desired control settings and flow rates, this will help responders to understand your total system. Both of the preceding posts are GAs, each covering different aspects of your situation.

Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 16
#5

Re: Control Valve Automation

11/05/2009 11:58 AM

Your using the CPC to control the pump, what are you using to control the valve? And what type of process is this for?

5 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

jcchiefeng (1), Kilowatt0 (1), PWSlack (1), shahand (1), Tornado (1)

Previous in Forum: VOLUME of a spherovaloidal dish   Next in Forum: ECM X13 Motors
You might be interested in: Air Valves, Tempering Valves and Thermally Actuated Valves, Hydraulic Valves