Previous in Forum: What Does "In Bending" Mean?   Next in Forum: Biodiesel Plant Designs
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

11/17/2009 3:28 AM

is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#1

Re: is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

11/17/2009 3:32 AM

yes

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#2

Re: is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

11/17/2009 3:35 AM

Yes.

Go on. Next question.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 58
#3

Re: is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

11/17/2009 4:31 AM

In principle, no. The discharge valve will close and prevent this.

__________________
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (A.E.)
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#4
In reply to #3

Re: is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

11/17/2009 4:47 AM

The discharge valve will close and prevent this.
Not if it's not worn, jammed etc.
The Q said 'possible' I believe?
Effectively most pumps are only as good as a pair of non-return valves in terms of stopping backflow.
Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#5
In reply to #4

Re: is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

11/17/2009 4:52 AM
__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 58
#7
In reply to #4

Re: is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

11/17/2009 7:57 PM

Agreed, but the answer did say "In principle", and that is what the valves are for.

__________________
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (A.E.)
Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - US Citizen - Born & Raised Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Brick, NJ (USA)
Posts: 110
Good Answers: 5
#6

Re: is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

11/17/2009 6:17 AM

Yes, but normally very little. If you have massive backflow, something has failed.

Please see: http://www.driedger.ca/ce2_pdp/CE2_PDP.html for a detailed explanation.

Here is a portion of the article:

There is a great variety of positive displacement pumps. They are divided into two broad categories: Rotary and reciprocating. From the controls point of view, however, they are all similar. Their characteristic curve is so simple that it is rarely drawn. It is essentially a straight vertical line, as shown in Figure 2-2. (For some reason PD pump curves are usually shown with the pressure and flow axis exchanged. I will not follow that convention in this article.) All are constant flow machines whose pressure rises to whatever value is necessary to put out the flow appropriate to the pump speed. If the discharge is blocked, the pressure will rise until something yields -- preferably a relief valve. Close examination of the curve shows a slight counter clockwise rotation. This is due to internal leakage.

For positive displacement pumps the major cause of leakage is the small amount of reverse flow that occurs before a check valve closes and possibly past the check valve after it is closed. Leakage past the piston is negligible. Diaphragm operated PD pumps have no cylinder to leak past. Rotating PD pumps, such as gear pumps or progressing cavity pumps have internal clearances which permit a small reverse flow, called "slip" or "blowby". There is another reason why the curve may rotate to slightly lower flows at higher discharge pressures: The driver may slow down as the load increases. None of these have a significant affect in curving the slope of the characteristic enough that this slope can be used for control. For most practical purposes the slope is vertical. The system curve of the process is also shown on Figure 2-2. Its intersection with the pump characteristic defines the operating point.

As always, the process controls engineer has the responsibility of matching the capacity of a specific piece of equipment to the demands of the process at every instant in time. Rarely does the actual system curve fall exactly on the one used for design and selection. As with any two port device, there are three locations in which a control valve can be placed: On the discharge, on the suction, and as a recycle valve.

__________________
"Memorize the calculations, you look like a fool searching your notes while teaching class"
Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 14
#8
In reply to #6

Re: is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

11/24/2009 12:46 AM

In the article you have offered a part of it, there have said: If the discharge is blocked, the pressure will rise until something yields. Could you explain why the pressure rises unlimitedly until something breaks? unlike the centrifugal pump ( as you know, in the black discharged condition the max. outlet press. Of a centrifugal pump is definite, i.e. its shutt off pressure).

KAVOSH

__________________
KAVOSH
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
United States - Member - US Citizen - Born & Raised Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Brick, NJ (USA)
Posts: 110
Good Answers: 5
#9
In reply to #8

Re: is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

12/01/2009 5:14 PM

Contrary to a centrifugal pump, this is a positive displacement pump and will either move the rated flow or increase the pressure until something breaks.

__________________
"Memorize the calculations, you look like a fool searching your notes while teaching class"
Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 14
#10
In reply to #9

Re: is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

12/11/2009 12:47 PM

You may not be clear about my query well, because your answer is repeating my question.

Your footnote( you look like a fool … ) is contrary to professional courtesy. Please consider CR4 RULES. You have to note that the CR4 is not a place for insulting people, but it is also a suitable opportunity for sharing experience/ knowledge or seeking enlargement via discussion and exchange of views.

KAVOSH

__________________
KAVOSH
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
United States - Member - US Citizen - Born & Raised Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - HVAC/R Simplified Using PLC Controls

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Brick, NJ (USA)
Posts: 110
Good Answers: 5
#11
In reply to #10

Re: is it possible for a reciprocating pump to have back flow to suction side

12/11/2009 4:45 PM

With all due respect, you misunderstand the American English language. This phrase is not an insult to anyone. What I have said is that a teacher, any teacher, would look like a "fool" if they were teaching a class requiring them to be expert in a subject and did not have a command of any equations neccessary to teach that class. Since I am a teacher, it is somewhat of a humorous point reflecting on my own experiences in the classroom.

Please, let us concentrate on the technical information sent and received in our dialogs. It is wasted time and effort in commenting on these points.

__________________
"Memorize the calculations, you look like a fool searching your notes while teaching class"
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Reply to Forum Thread 11 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

jcchiefeng (3); kavoshgar (2); PWSlack (2); The Prof (2); user-deleted-1105 (2)

Previous in Forum: What Does "In Bending" Mean?   Next in Forum: Biodiesel Plant Designs

Advertisement