I am not an attorney but it sure sounds like since you bought the web site first, it's yours and you can keep it until it sells. However, since it is his company name and then when visiting the site it has your company info, you might get in trouuble for that. To remedy - maybe change the content of the site to simply state "under construction, and this site is for sale" that might keep you out of legal troubel. Also sounds like the phone company web service, by trying to redirect hits away from the site, might be in trouble. I'd call them back and put them on notice that they better think twice about directing any web traffic away from a lawfully purchased site! None of the above is based on any law, just an opinion!!

It's your domain... You can do what you want with it as long as you pay the yearly subscription fee to keep it. He can always go get the .net .org or any of the others. but maybe you sell it to him for a bit of cash? dirty buisness....

Wow... great reference... I stand thoroughly corrected... you cannot do as you wish... bad faith eh?.

After the read I'm going to say he might have you by the legal balls...

This all just makes me glad I went into Engineering instead of Law (of course law wasn't even a consideration... as dentistry was the second choice)

Thanks Chris for the link.

I have a significant problem in this area myself.

Two companies and a band have begun using the name Transcendia, for which I have copyright going back to 1982.

One entertainment attorney told me that I could not necessarily prevent the band from using the name, for I was a Company, and Country, and work of art, they were a band, and it was same as the band could use the name Chicago.

In relation to the two companies using my name, I was told I must object as soon as possible, as otherwise I was allowing use.

Hence I have attempted to object to the use of my name, knowing that the actions of the OP may be prompted by my objection.

From the OP's story, it would appear that his adversary did react as would be recommended by objecting.

Apparently there are some skews since NBC is, or was National Biscuit Company, and National Broadcasting Company, were two different things. P.S. Transcendia, and Transcendian are copyrighted by Russell Scott Day.

That is a great reference, thanks Chris, and I've marked that cyber law Harvard site home page as a fave too. After reading that it does seem there could be a problem.

I am in the tree care industry.A competitor called me up one day and left a nasty message on my answering machine.Please remember,he drew "first blood". When the yellowpages came out, his ad was next to mine.And his ad displayed a website www.aaalogging.com however,

He drew first blood?..........kinda all one sided so far and this is not a court room.

What prompted the nasty message. Did you impose yourself on something of his prior to the nasty message?

Excellent post Chris Leonard.

A little advice to the OP your one sided public posts may work against you. Now you may have some things to answer to......legally. You better make amends with him before attorneys get involved.

p911

well, for starters aaalogging is too generic and he does not have a trademark to that name. he runs a service called aaa logging and tree service, and that is the name his business is under.The yellow pages people got it wrong in their print. Since this is not trademark infringement,proper name usage, company name,etc,and it is not slandering his operation, i think i am a good enough pro se litigant to handle this without paying an attorney,and i have plenty of time to ask for 3-4 continuances to run up his atty bills. It would be much simpler if he just paid a few grand,and bought the site.And, no, i did not disturb him first, unless you consider running an ad in the same newspaper he reads as antagonizing him. there was nothing about him or his operations in the ad, just basically some of my prices,which, in his opinion,were way too low.He called me and left a nasty message about what type of bozo op are you running,you wont be in business long,yada yada yada. He is one of the storm chaser tree services,and bought up a lot of equipment he cant pay for now after last winters icestorms. this is a common practice in internet business. come up with a dot com that no one else is using,and sell it to whomever is the highest bidder.Buy for a nickel,sell for a dime,thats the american way,right?

come up with a dot com that no one else is using,and sell it to whomever is the highest bidder.Buy for a nickel,sell for a dime,thats the american way,right?

IMO.....We are technical people here and not attorney's, but remember Judges are not stupid. And as far as the american way is concerned.....usually the people that do things that are if not unethically, at least shady, are smart enough to keep it to themselves. Because ignorance of the law is no excuse. I suggest you tone down your exposure on this matter, as well as what I suggested earlier what you should do with your competior.

p911

If I were your competitor's lawyer, I'd cite the add and the date it was published as absolute proof my clear intention to purchase and USE the site as it was originally intended. In other words, as a site for AAA Logging and Tree Service, not Classic Tree Service. Any reasonable person, seeing the ad, would assume that it was owned by the ad placer and would not have pursued it without unsavory intentions.

If I were your competitor's lawyer, I could think of any number of plausible, unethical reasons why you beat me to the rights to the site.

The other issue is what he intended to ad to say. The phone company may be on his side if they got the ad wrong. Keep in mind that visitors to this site have the phone book in front of them, and are using it as a reference. They could not get this site from anywhere else and would not assume that it is connected with your business.

I think that unless you know the judge, you will not prevail in court.

There is a lot of cyber squatting out there. Most if not all domains that expire get picked up by squatters for pennies (legally) and they offer to sell them back to the person that forgot to pay the bill for big bucks. They also look for word combinations that might be valuable to new businesses and they play the same game. It all seems wrong, but they make tons of money doing it.

Some of the big ISPs, even some that have a well known name and seem like they should care about their reputation will play dirty pool. A few of them got caught buying domain names (for pennies) after someone did a search to see if the name was available. They used the search as an indicator of value and held the domain for ransom.

I don't want to risk having my domain host put me on their list of people that they don't like so I won't give their name. But, if you think of the domain hosts that you see in TV commercials and have heard about in advertising then you will probably find that several of them have "Domain Auctions". Do a little snooping and see if the published rules for selling a domain are interesting to you.

By the way, from what little I know I probably frown upon what you are doing. But, in a cyber world where bad people rule I can sit back with a smile of disapproval if someone who is being a big jerk is taught a little bit of a lesson by someone who is being a little bit of a jerk.

Please keep us informed. This is interesting.

it is your domain. The advertising service appears to have included your competitors details that he provided them and published them in good faith. That would mean your competitor lied in his application for advertising space, a space that now contains some of your now purchased details.

Enjoy the benefits of your competitor referring clients to your domain that contains your contact numbers et cetera.

Apparently, being in the Southern Hemisphere makes you see things up-side-down.

The advertiser mucked up the advert. The original poster pounced on this mistake. Please re-read the OP.

Cheers!

I think it important that a distinction be made between a domain name and a web site. You could sell the domain name to anyone and transfer it via the registrar. You also can sell the website.

Reserving a domain name and it's various extensions (.net .org etc) is not much different than automobile companies tagging model names and reserving them.

Ford owns "Bronco" and "Mustang". If you happen to own a sports car factory in Dallas and you want to call it the Mustang? Too late!

What you did may not be fair but life's not fair. . . . . so welcome to the club!

L.J.

I think the phone company is blowing smoke, I'm not sure they can cause a re-direct without accessing your .htaccess file

I'm a little confused here.

Did the phone book misprint his web link? If so they need to fix the problem.

Or did he tell them he had the aaalogging.com link before he actually bought it? He shouldn't include information on his add before he actually owns the link. How did he know it wasn't already taken by someone else (not You) if he didn't have a contract on it already?

And how did you find out that the link was available before he bought it? Did you see the add and wanted to check out the competitions web site? And when there was nothing there you decided to buy it?

As far as going to court goes, I can see it depending on the Judges outlook on these types of cases.

First I would consult my lawyer. In particular a lawyer with experience in copy write and trademark laws and how they are connected to cyberspace. I know you cannot commit a fraudulent act or do damage to a company. I believe you can build a website with your company name and contact information. Maybe you could just use it to forward any contacts to your website.

I would try not to make this a personal matter. Business is business and if you happen to get a jump on a competitor then so be it.

I think the fact that you publicly state on the website that the domain is for sale works against you. Hard to prove that you are not working in bad faith when the apparent motive is purely profit in selling the name.

my brother is guy malone, he runs all the ufo stuff in roswell,nm.,and is a website developer,writer,speaker,multiple domain owner,etc. I imagine roswell mall would love to have www.roswellmall.com ,but that is one of my brothers domains,and if you look at that page, it is nothing but a for sale to the highest bidder page.Roswell Mall has enough dollars to go after this domain,but enough sense not to.I am pretty sure triple a otherwise known as AAA, being the road service company would love to shut down www.aaasucks.com with the big picture of a tow truck on the front page. They have the money,but know its a loosing fight.I dont even think madonna has been able to buy www.madonna.com ,even with her money.If she did win yet, it cost her big time.My brother is pretty sure i have this fair and square. I did want some input from you all though,as i have gotten some excellent ideas,should i have to fend off someone who wants this domain.To me,using aaa before your companys name simply means a a a, i aint got any work, and this is my feeble attempt to get noticed in the crowd, and no work means no money to bring legal action. Of course,since he is a storm chaser, he may come back from a huricane or icestorm with a few thousand to throw at this issue,one day.Personally, i am not going after anyone to claim www.classictreeservice.com, or classictree.com,or classictreecare.com,because someone else got them first. I have an excellent availabe domain name to start a serious site,but will probably wait till after christmas to set it up. And,no i wont tell anyone what it is,lol.But, i am a pretty good pro se litigant,and have never hired an attorney. I am the only one the state of louisianna ever saw beat a "no inspection sticker"ticket, for not having the required vehicle inspection sticker on my vehicle,or posession,or at all.So i think with some of the terminology and points brought up here, i can mount a good defense,that and a few hours of research before my court hearing, if it ever happens. I guess it is the general opinion of this group that i should not post this image on the site in question or email it to aaa's owner. See, you guys have really helped. I probably would have done it the next time he called me.I will keep everyone informed, if i hear from him again.I would really like to reach an agrement with him,and work together,as i do with several other companies.But like i said, he kinda started this by ringing my phone at 7 am on sunday morning and leaving a nasty message on my messages,right after he saw my first ad.

I have done this before...and you need not worry. If anyone is "Squatting" its him not having the domain prior to publishing his ad. Remember, as long as you are using the domain you will be fine. If you registered the domain and not used it, there might be a case for squatting. Have fun and make money.

In the real world, dumb people don't make money...

I LIKE IT!!!! A big mouth got his comeuppance!!!

If I was you, I would wait until he had ALL the big guns line up before doing anything more. Why waste money on a lawyer, let him do that, if he has the money at all....

You bought it in good faith, its yours and you are still being friendly enough to allow him to buy it if he wishes!!!

He must be very confident before suing that he will win, I do not see his chances as being any better than 50/50, they are probably much worse than that if the truth be known......

Wait up.......

By the way, as already mentioned by others, he made the mistake via the phone company, not you......he should not have displayed the name before getting the site bought. Finders keepers?

I wish you also a modicum of luck as well.

Keep us informed!!!

ageniusforhire:

I like to thank you for this is if anything is an excellent discussion.

All posts here so for are opinions (that are broad in the spectrum) along with advice, I do not believe any posters opinions that are given as in the posters themselves are in the legal profession.

Very curious to know how things will turn out.

p911

Like it, you are a MAN!!

I think when people find out that you are not AAA logging and its obvious that AAA logging is a separate business, your reputation will be reduced and might create sympathy business for the other company.

Sometimes it is better to be nice than mean.

GT

If you look at the web site in question, it is very clear that i am not aaa. There will be no misunderstanding.My business is very small. On a good week i bring in around $2000,as i do all my own climbing and saw work and most of my own labor.. Sometimes i bring in a little hired help for technical tree trimming,where i need people running ropes to guide the limbs around things in the way comming down. My little operation is no threat to anyone here,that is why i am so able to work for most of my competitors from time to time.It is hard for people around here to give someone sympathy business,when they charge twice as much as i do.My overhead is so low,no one can touch my prices on small jobs.And i dont do too many big jobs,because they are harder to make a profit at.If there is more than a few truckloads of stuff, i usually just split the work with my partner,because he has a few chippers and dumptrucks sitting around.The people around here are a different breed.They think it is hillarious that i snatched this fly by night storm chasers advertised page ,and inserted mine by buying it first.I live very close to ft knox,and almost everyone around here is military,or retired military or ex military,and its pretty close to hillbilly country.Even the people at city hall got a kick out of it,when he went whining to them about it.We are so far off the beaten path,aaa and i are the only 2 tree companies who even have a presence on the internet in this county,and i really doubt it will gain or loose us much business either way.Tree trimming people are a different mentality from most, and us climbers are known to be even worse. We are spoiled by our bosses,if we have one. They will special order climbing ropes,spurs,saddles etc. It is nothing to see a climber for a big tree company wearing over $1000 worth of top of the line equipment, insted of the $350 standard set of gear.The only saw most climbers will use is the stihl 200t climbing saw. It is $579 new. I dont know how many climbers i have seen throw a cheap or nonrunning saw out of a tree to the ground,and not get fired for it,but recieve a brand new saw,instead.If a climber needs cigs or a nice cold fountain drink, the owner will drive 20 miles to go get it,without complaining.If we are using a company climbing rope and dont like it,most bosses will special order a new $150 rope for you that day.we cocky,arrogent and will work all week,and come friday at lunch,if the boss pisses us off,we will grab up our gear in one hand and cell phone in the other hand and take off walking from the jobsite,knowing we will probably not see our money for the work we did earlier that week.I have been fired for not climbing an obviously unsafe tree before,and flipped my phone open right in front of the boss,called another tree company,and finished out the day with them. If a hothead boss fires a climber or they quit,when we go back to work for that company,we usually get a raise.It is practically the only occupation where you can move to any city,pick up the yellow pages and be hired over the phone with no references or in person meeting.And get paid $15-25 an hour or better,many times in cash at the end of the day if you need it.If the boss isnt around,the climber,even a new one,pretty much runs the crew.And gets to pick who works with him after that. The first day on the job is your interview. If you show up,on time or not,and dont destroy anything taking down a tree over a house,you have the job till you decide to go elsewhere.we are quite brave,a little crazy,insane geniuses at what we do.You dont get old in this business unless you are very smart,know when to walk away from a dangerous tree,etc. One mistake can kill you or someone under you on the ground.I frequently joke to my customers about it being safer up here than on the ground below me.And, believe it or not,a lot of tree company owners cant climb a tree without getting hurt. They know it is dangerous,buggy,sweaty or freezing when we work, and give us respect for doing what they cant,because we make them money.One of the owners here doesnt even bid any jobs that he cant get to with a buckettruck,because he doesnt want a climber around to deal with.It is nothing for the boss to tell a climber "that wont work" only to be asked "are you a tree man?'' Yes,"well, hide behind a tree and watch"lol.And they usually just roll with it.If the boss has a habit of staying around the job, we usually do somthing that scares the **** out of them to make them go away for the day. like tossing your hat to the ground from 80 feet up, and beating it to the ground on your way down.Or flipping upside down on your safety line and comming down head first, or jumping/swinging on the climbing line to a limb or another tree 20 feet away,while you are still 50 ft in the air.Actus runs all the construction on ft knox, and usually gives about an hour and a half safety breifing to anyone who works above the ground on their projects,fall arrest gear,tie in points,etc. After the ice storm,when ft knox/actus needed climbers to remove broken limbs from over the housing areas, our safety breifing was about 2 minuits.Basically they said youall know what you are doing,you are all crazy and if you get hurt,you have to pass a drug test to sue us for your injuries. end of safety breifing,lol. no pre-employment drug screen required.Climbers are a crazy bunch,for sure.And the better and higher paid we are,the harder we are to deal with usually on the ground.We get to the job,light a cig,walk around and inspect the tree 10 minuits or so, go sharpen our chainsaw for the day,sharpen our spurs, look at the tree some more,and 20-40 minuits after we arrive, you hear our saw start.And the boss is happy we showed up.And a lot of us can bring our own trucks to the site,get the tree on the ground,and go goof off or go home for the day with decent pay. We make the mess,but we usually dont clean it up. You will hardly ever see a climber with a rake in his hand.Some bosses do try to make the climbers work on the ground,and some climbers will. I will do ground work myself,but most climbers wont.The tree co owners are very surprised and lucky when they find a climber who will drag brush. Most owners dont pay the climber what they are worth,but some do,especially part-time get it on the ground giggs.Climbers can make or break a tree company quick.And if you cant climb, it is usually not a good idea to go buy a bunch of expensive equipment and try to open a tree service.Bucket trucks are nice, but when they quit working,the company has no income,and a lot of expenses that keep on comming,day after day.But,anyway, maybe now you can see why a little game of cat and mouse is not really such a big deal between tree company owners.We either work together,sometimes a little too closely or we dont,there is usually no middle ground.I was working at a golf course one day, the boss, his 2 sons, a few groundmen and myself were sitting around eating lunch. The owner of a competing tree company came up and started talking to our boss. They both discussed a bid they had put in on a big project.They both knew one of them had the job.They sat together on the golf course and negotiated a deal to use both companies equipment and crews to do the job together and split it. The bosses son was very confused why this had happened,they were competitors.I busted out laughing and was asked did you know why i did that.I replied yes,keep your friends close,and your enemys closer. I was exactly right.The boss was surprised.It is nothing for one owner to "steal"a good climber from another owner, by offering him more money,sometimes right in front of the climbers boss. The guy at aaa is not a climber,but he can run a bobcat with a grapple.There is a difference between people who can climb and climbers. People who can climb are slow and awkward in a tree,they have trouble getting around a big limb on the way up,they are covered with sweat by the time they get to a good high tie in point to work from.They have their saw sent up on a rope to them and usually stay where they can hang onto the trunk, or a limb.Climbers, on the other hand clip the saw on their side,stick a cig in their mouth and take off up the tree and tie in before the cig is finished,without breaking a sweat.you look up, and they are walking,not inching, out a limb to tip the last 2-4 feet off a branch over the house or wires. there is no place in a tree a squirrell can go, that we cant get the squirrell,unless the tree or limb is dead.While climbers are waiting on a saw to be refilled, we will be spinning or hanging upside down on our safety ropes, or swinging in the air between limbs for fun while we wait. People who climb will be hugging the tree trunk while they wait.AAA prefers a hurricane or ice storm bring things down for him,and is kind of a joke to the real tree companies around here.No one has ever even seen him do a job,and i have never had a customer tell me i was bidding against aaa in over 2 yrs here.Thats another hidden little thing in this industry.If you are bidding a job,and get the job, the customers usually wont hesitate to tell you what the other bids were,and from who.I dont even ask before i enter my bid,because it is a low,honest bid. A lot of tree company owners will ask what the lowest bid is, then enter their bid accordingly,or even advertise to beat any written estimate.But those are usually,not always, the fly by night outfits.In the big metro areas,someone who has a $250,000 crane and a $70,000 chipper can beat the little guys on price,by doing volume.A $1000 removal job may take a small outfit like mine 2-3 days to complete,whereas the company with the big toys can do it in 30 minuits to an hour.But you have to work those expensive toys everyday to keep up with the maintenance and costs.

Oh, and that is just the relativly straight climbers. If you get one who is an alcoholic,crack/meth head or a stoner who fires up a joint in the top of your customers tree,your problems are compounded even further. But they are even tolerated in this industry by most tree service owners. If they dont want you to smoke a joint on the job, they will toss you the truck keys and send you "to the store" or to go help another crew out.The big companies with the big insurance bucks dont have to pay out if the employee is under the influence of anything if he gets hurt.So the owners tolerate it.Because if you fire the climber, and cant climb yourself, you look pretty bad to the customer if you cant get his job finished. And no finish means no pay,no matter how much work you have already done.The bosses will even come out in the middle of the night,and bail us out of jail,give us a truck, feed us, give us a place to stay if we need it,etc...all for a good climber, no matter how much trouble we are on the ground.If the police are looking for one of us through the company owner,he will usually lead them to the job,and follow the squad car to the station to post bail and laugh and say you owe me,get back to work.We are a very strange breed of person.

Sorry, but I can't be bothered to read it without proper paragraphs........my eyes are over 60 years old, nearly 40 years looking at screens.....

It's a decent rant so I took the liberty:

If you look at the web site in question, it is very clear that i am not aaa. There will be no misunderstanding. My business is very small. On a good week i bring in around $2000, as i do all my own climbing and saw work and most of my own labor. Sometimes i bring in a little hired help for technical tree trimming, where i need people running ropes to guide the limbs around things in the way coming down.

My little operation is no threat to anyone here,that is why i am so able to work for most of my competitors from time to time. It is hard for people around here to give someone sympathy business,when they charge twice as much as i do. My overhead is so low, no one can touch my prices on small jobs. And i don't do too many big jobs, because they are harder to make a profit at. If there is more than a few truckloads of stuff, i usually just split the work with my partner, because he has a few chippers and dump trucks sitting around. The people around here are a different breed. They think it is hilarious that i snatched this fly by night storm chasers advertised page, and inserted mine by buying it first. I live very close to Ft Knox, and almost everyone around here is military, or retired military or ex military, and its pretty close to hillbilly country. Even the people at city hall got a kick out of it, when he went whining to them about it. We are so far off the beaten path, aaa and i are the only 2 tree companies who even have a presence on the Internet in this county, and i really doubt it will gain or loose us much business either way.

Tree trimming people are a different mentality from most, and us climbers are known to be even worse. We are spoiled by our bosses, if we have one. They will special order climbing ropes,spurs, saddles, etc. It is nothing to see a climber for a big tree company wearing over $1000 worth of top of the line equipment, instead of the $350 standard set of gear. The only saw most climbers will use is the stihl 200t climbing saw. It is $579 new. I don't know how many climbers i have seen throw a cheap or non-running saw out of a tree to the ground, and not get fired for it,but receive a brand new saw,instead. If a climber needs cigs or a nice cold fountain drink, the owner will drive 20 miles to go get it, without complaining. If we are using a company climbing rope and don't like it, most bosses will special order a new $150 rope for you that day.

We cocky,arrogant and will work all week, and come Friday at lunch, if the boss pisses us off, we will grab up our gear in one hand and cell phone in the other hand and take off walking from the job site,knowing we will probably not see our money for the work we did earlier that week.

I have been fired for not climbing an obviously unsafe tree before, and flipped my phone open right in front of the boss, called another tree company,and finished out the day with them. If a hothead boss fires a climber or they quit, when we go back to work for that company, we usually get a raise. It is practically the only occupation where you can move to any city, pick up the yellow pages and be hired over the phone with no references or in person meeting. And get paid $15-25 an hour or better,many times in cash at the end of the day if you need it.

If the boss isn't around,the climber,even a new one, pretty much runs the crew. And gets to pick who works with him after that. The first day on the job is your interview. If you show up, on time or not, and don't destroy anything taking down a tree over a house, you have the job till you decide to go elsewhere.we are quite brave, a little crazy, insane geniuses at what we do. You don't get old in this business unless you are very smart, know when to walk away from a dangerous tree, etc. One mistake can kill you or someone under you on the ground. I frequently joke to my customers about it being safer up here than on the ground below me.And, believe it or not, a lot of tree company owners cant climb a tree without getting hurt. They know it is dangerous, buggy, sweaty or freezing when we work, and give us respect for doing what they cant, because we make them money.

One of the owners here doesn't even bid any jobs that he cant get to with a bucket truck, because he doesn't want a climber around to deal with. It is nothing for the boss to tell a climber "that wont work" only to be asked "are you a tree man?'' Yes, "well, hide behind a tree and watch" lol.And they usually just roll with it. If the boss has a habit of staying around the job, we usually do something that scares the **** out of them to make them go away for the day. Like tossing your hat to the ground from 80 feet up, and beating it to the ground on your way down. Or flipping upside down on your safety line and coming down head first, or jumping/swinging on the climbing line to a limb or another tree 20 feet away, while you are still 50 ft in the air.

Actus runs all the construction on Ft Knox, and usually gives about an hour and a half safety briefing to anyone who works above the ground on their projects, fall arrest gear, tie in points, etc. After the ice storm, when Ft Knox/Actus needed climbers to remove broken limbs from over the housing areas, our safety briefing was about 2 minutes. Basically they said ya'll know what you are doing, you are all crazy and if you get hurt, you have to pass a drug test to sue us for your injuries. end of safety briefing, lol. no pre-employment drug screen required. Climbers are a crazy bunch, for sure. And the better and higher paid we are,the harder we are to deal with usually on the ground.

We get to the job, light a cig, walk around and inspect the tree 10 minutes or so, go sharpen our chain-saw for the day, sharpen our spurs, look at the tree some more, and 20-40 minutes after we arrive, you hear our saw start. And the boss is happy we showed up. And a lot of us can bring our own trucks to the site, get the tree on the ground, and go goof off or go home for the day with decent pay.

We make the mess, but we usually don't clean it up. You will hardly ever see a climber with a rake in his hand. Some bosses do try to make the climbers work on the ground,a nd some climbers will. I will do ground work myself,but most climbers wont. The tree Co. owners are very surprised and lucky when they find a climber who will drag brush. Most owners don't pay the climber what they are worth, but some do, especially part-time get it on the ground gigs.

Climbers can make or break a tree company quick.And if you cant climb, it is usually not a good idea to go buy a bunch of expensive equipment and try to open a tree service.

Bucket trucks are nice, but when they quit working, the company has no income, and a lot of expenses that keep on coming, day after day.

But,anyway, maybe now you can see why a little game of cat and mouse is not really such a big deal between tree company owners. We either work together, sometimes a little too closely or we don't, there is usually no middle ground. I was working at a golf course one day, the boss, his 2 sons, a few ground men and myself were sitting around eating lunch. The owner of a competing tree company came up and started talking to our boss. They both discussed a bid they had put in on a big project. They both knew one of them had the job. They sat together on the golf course and negotiated a deal to use both companies equipment and crews to do the job together and split it. The bosses son was very confused why this had happened,they were competitors.I busted out laughing and was asked did you know why i did that.I replied yes,keep your friends close,and your enemy's closer. I was exactly right. The boss was surprised. It is nothing for one owner to "steal"a good climber from another owner, by offering him more money, sometimes right in front of the climbers boss.

The guy at aaa is not a climber, but he can run a bobcat with a grapple. There is a difference between people who can climb and climbers. People who can't climb are slow and awkward in a tree, they have trouble getting around a big limb on the way up, they are covered with sweat by the time they get to a good high tie in point to work from. They have their saw sent up on a rope to them and usually stay where they can hang onto the trunk, or a limb.

Climbers, on the other hand clip the saw on their side, stick a cig in their mouth and take off up the tree and tie in before the cig is finished, without breaking a sweat. you look up, and they are walking, not inching, out a limb to tip the last 2-4 feet off a branch over the house or wires. there is no place in a tree a squirrel can go, that we cant get the squirrel, unless the tree or limb is dead.While climbers are waiting on a saw to be refilled, we will be spinning or hanging upside down on our safety ropes, or swinging in the air between limbs for fun while we wait. People who can't climb will be hugging the tree trunk while they wait.

AAA prefers a hurricane or ice storm bring things down for him, and is kind of a joke to the real tree companies around here. No one has ever even seen him do a job, and i have never had a customer tell me i was bidding against aaa in over 2 yrs here. Thats another hidden little thing in this industry. If you are bidding a job, and get the job, the customers usually wont hesitate to tell you what the other bids were, and from who. I don't even ask before i enter my bid, because it is a low, honest bid. A lot of tree company owners will ask what the lowest bid is, then enter their bid accordingly, or even advertise to beat any written estimate. But those are usually, not always, the fly by night outfits.

In the big metro areas, someone who has a $250,000 crane and a $70,000 chipper can beat the little guys on price, by doing volume. A $1000 removal job may take a small outfit like mine 2-3 days to complete, whereas the company with the big toys can do it in 30 minutes to an hour. But you have to work those expensive toys everyday to keep up with the maintenance and costs.

Oh, and that is just the relatively straight climbers. If you get one who is an alcoholic,crack/meth head or a stoner who fires up a joint in the top of your customers tree, your problems are compounded even further. But they are even tolerated in this industry by most tree service owners. If they don't want you to smoke a joint on the job, they will toss you the truck keys and send you "to the store" or to go help another crew out. The big companies with the big insurance bucks don't have to pay out if the employee is under the influence of anything if he gets hurt. So the owners tolerate it. Because if you fire the climber, and cant climb yourself, you look pretty bad to the customer if you cant get his job finished. And no finish means no pay,no matter how much work you have already done.

The bosses will even come out in the middle of the night,and bail us out of jail, give us a truck, feed us, give us a place to stay if we need it , etc...all for a good climber, no matter how much trouble we are on the ground. If the police are looking for one of us through the company owner, he will usually lead them to the job, and follow the squad car to the station to post bail and laugh and say you owe me, get back to work. We are a very strange breed of person.

You are a dumbass.

No, I AM A CLIMBER and to me your ghostly little guest comment means nothing. Especially if you cant stand face to face with me,100 feet in the air on a 4 inch tree limb and call me dumbass. By the way, i come to the ageniusforhire handle quite honestly,several bosses have told me i was a genius for figuring out how to remove a hazard tree from the backyard over the house,and make the limbs land in or by the truck out front,without using a crane. If the egyptians can build a pyramid, i can figure out how to move a tree without heavy equipment.And my handle was inspector gadget in the army. I could rig or fix or figure out about anything the 1st infantry division or 101st airborne units i was with needed done.Unless you are calling me a dumbass for even being in my line of work,which i have heard before,and just reply "what little kid doesnt want to grow up and be paid to climb trees"And they usually just smile,remember their childhood and think,yea, that might be nice.Oh, my handle and email address are both for sale, ageniusforhire@yahoo.com ,in case you think you are more deserving,or can win them in court.lol.

By the way, a dumbass climber is an oxymoron,especially one with over 20 yrs experience,because all the dumbass ones die in the first few years of climbing.People who know me well consider me quite a SMARTass. I have climbed over 20 years,without a climbing related injury severe enough for me to see a doctor or hospital. There are very few veteran climbers who can say that in the whole country.I found your pic, no wonder there was no name, its kinda hard to recognize you

Perhaps your "adversary" has found you here?

Simply ignore him/her.....bad PMS/hair day?

I also found his/her comment completely uncalled for.......but as we all know,bad mannered people guests/trolls are often from parents who never taught their offspring even basic good manners.....so its not really his/her fault, its simply their crap parents......

I apologize.

Andy this man is obviously a genus.

He has explained his exploits and background, and I myself am sorry for whatever work I did from which he got his arrogance. I do sort of think there is something dangerous about the genus's attitude.

In normal cases I might go on with points, but I myself fuzz out when it is impossible to read the text.

Hence, I, as part of his inspiration in the media, say only dumb ass.

...and you are a born coward!!

I think I was tired.

Birth trauma overtook me late in life.

I admit it, I called the OP "genus" a dumbass.

Every now and then someone does push one of my buttons.

I am sensitive when it comes to intellectual property, and copyright, and TM issues.

I have also worked with stunt men and special effects guys that were dangerously rabid.- or violently full of themselves.

The Genus OP reports he did exactly what I feared would be done by those who have recently ripped off my name.

Hence my displeasure.

I did transgress for I do feel that the best use of the Guest post on this forum is when the poster gives us "secret" knowledge impossible to trace back to them.

I used the "Guest" post in this case outside of my own strictures.

transcendia is a neat concept and word.I could understand you being upset if you were the first one to come up with it, or if you had trademarked the word as yours,you may have,and that is why you are sensitive to the domain issue. However,you are not the first one out with that word. It is a common misspelling of the roadside(in louisianna,anyway)plant with slender green leaves and purple flowers, and is even sold under that name in some places. http://www.thegardenhelper.com/cgi-bin/ubb/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/69/853.html this is just a reference to it, i didnt want to go on looking for a link to buy it under its misspelled name.I think your flag should be larger on some of the shirts you sell,btw, its a cool image.So i can understand your comment in the dark. I send stuff out as guest sometimes,too,not realizing i had logged out earlier.I am not self destructuve though.No wants,no warrants,no arrests, no convictions,no tattoos and no earrings,lol.I am very careful when i am climbing. I have never been injured, or hit the ground,although i would be a millionaire if i could sell some of the rides i have taken when somthing broke,and i went sailing through the air 40-50 ft or dropping to the safety of my climbing line with my chainsaw running wide open at the instant of limb failure, or the trip i took when some idiot ran the ground end of my climbing rope through the brush chipper,snatching me away from the tree, out about 25 feet,then releasing me to come swinging into the tree trunk at a high rate of speed, after the chipper finally cut the climbing line off after it tightened up.I am a very calm person,and did not beat him down after i got down safely. It really takes a lot to get me upset enough to show,and many people who know me well have stated they would hate to be around when i finally"crack".I am, after all, an army trained infantry/antiarmor/airborne/nbc specialist and had all the weapons and explosives training,etc,along with my apptitude to rig up almost anything i can envision.But i stay on the correct side of the law,and probably will for my entire life. The govt would have to basically fall and all law be abandoned before any of my latent skills would come into play.I dont even own a gun right now,although my record is clean enough to own a fully operational battle tank, if i could afford the permit process. But i doubt i will ever "crack". I have gone through some crap in my years, and just play it like a game of chess. Getting no more upset at the outcome than if it were a game.However, as with most people who are "genius"in one area they can be dumbasses in other areas.To which i freely admit.If your into dianetics any, i took about a 2000 question psych profile of theirs one time,All areas of my profile were noticably above average,however,my "interaction with others" was toward the bottom of the scale.I have,through the years figured out why i avoid being "friends" with too many people,and set my standards high for anyone to get "friends"status. Most of the people who want to be your "friend"are actually only interested in your time,money or woman or stuff.There are very few true friends to be had.The kind who will tell you if your woman flirts too much with them,hand you back a $100 bill when you drop it unnoticed,drive halfway across the country at night to get you unstuck,loan you anything he has,except his woman,etc.Those type of people are very rare, but i honor my standards,and only befriend others closely with like attitudes.If you want to see how "loyal" people around you, or your employees are, just leave a 5 dollar bill in the floorboard,and let them use your car or truck. Simple,cheap test,to find out who you can trust around you.An old army seargent explained it in one sentance to me. "If you lie to me,you will steal from me,and if you steal from me,you will kill me".Depending on the circumstances,of course. But my business ethics are high as well. I met 2 other owners in the tree care business today for the first time,one at an estimate,and the other at lowes. At the estimate, we were both at the same price,unknown to us.Before he left, i introduced myself, and we traded business cards,both going to get in touch if we needed help on a job.The lowes meeting was the same, except no potental customer standing beside us as we spoke.I got the job, by the way.The customer called and spoke with me an hour later. The fact that he liked me more was his determining factor.AAA is offering his salesmen $65-100,000 a year.Someone called me looking for work today,and i told them to check with aaa,because he has help wanted ads posted. The domain i own is a dirivative of his full legal company name.He only wants it now that i have it.And it is for sale,and it seems it may be uncontestable,from my other research.but we will see.Speaking of, transcendia.com may be open to be purchased, if you are interested,because it does not appear to be an active website.Would you like me to make a few inquiries for you?later,c

All in all, ask yourself "Why do you do best?"

1.) limb, cut brush, ect......

2.) look at any way to antagonizing your competition.

I always felt nothing good will come of that kind of behavior, and actually come back at you 10fold.

p911