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Pump (With Different TDH) in Parallel

03/22/2010 4:14 AM

Dear All,

I am new here and could anyone answer my question?

1) When multiple pumps are discharged into one single outlet line with different pressure at different point, will the pump with the lower pressure get damaged (as it will run but the flow from it cannot overcome the stronger pressure in the line which is discharged by the stronger pump)?

It would be good to have some reference documents if possible.


2) If the inlet pressure (suction pressure) of the centrifugal pump is increased, will the outlet pressure be increased?
Let say with inlet pressure 1 bar, the pump is discharging 5 bar with flowrate of 5m3/hour and if the inlet pressure is increased to 3 bar, what will be the consequence?

Could you please kindly advise me on the above if it is feasible.

Thank you so much again for knowledge sharing and have a nice day.

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#1

Re: Pump (with different TDH) in parallel

03/22/2010 4:30 AM

Item 1: as there will be no flow through the pump if the pressure gain through the bigger pump exceeds the maximum pressure gain in the smaller pump, it would be better to turn off the smaller pump, as all it is doing is stirring fluid. Over time, its temperature will rise, and this could pose a threat to the smaller pump. Its continued use will certainly pose a threat to both the electricity bill and to maintenance costs!

Item 2: Yes, though the amount depends upon the downstream system pressure/flow characteristic. If the system were feeding a fixed-head overflow weir, for example, all that would happen is that the flow would increase and there would be a minor change in discharge pressure; the pump would be operating at a different place on its pressure/flow characteristic curve that was compatible with the increased suction pressure and the increased flow. So, in general, it is not possible to say exactly what happens without sight of the system pressure/flow characteristic and overlaying it on the pump pressure/flow characteristic. Where these two curves intersect is the operating point.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Pump (with different TDH) in parallel

03/22/2010 5:39 AM

Hello PWSlack,

Thanks for the answer.

Does the answer to Question 1 valid for pumps with very small difference in pressure (let's say pump A is pumping at a pressure of 5.5bar with the flowrate of 5m3/hr into discharge line and what will happen when pump B starts discharging 5 bar at 120m3/h)? Will the flow from Pump B go into the discharge line (Will there be any flow from pump B)?

For Question 2, I don't know how I can look where the place of the pump will be on its performance curve with increasing suction head pressure. Isn't the TDH the sum of the suction pressure (in head) + the pump's pumping pressure (in head)? Then if the suction pressure is increased the TDH should increased linearly. So is it right for me to look at the performance curve of the above mentioned pump at the head of 3 bar (originally at 5 bar - the increased suction head 2 bar) which will show more flowrate?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Pump (with different TDH) in parallel

03/22/2010 5:48 AM

<...Does the answer to Question 1 valid for pumps with very small difference in pressure (let's say pump A is pumping at a pressure of 5.5bar with the flowrate of 5m3/hr into discharge line and what will happen when pump B starts discharging 5 bar at 120m3/h)? Will the flow from Pump B go into the discharge line (Will there be any flow from pump B)?...>

Pump B cannot discharge 120m3/h at 5barg if the downstream system is operating at 5.5barg!

Consider the case where two identical pumps plumbed in parallel are started. One doesn't get twice the flow. Why? Because the downstream system characteristic determines where on their individual characteristics the pumps will operate. One doesn't even get the same flow through each pump. Why? Because slight variances in the piping introduce flow resistances to one pump that the other one doesn't see.

In order to see what is happening in the question 1 pumps situation, fit some pressure gauges and a time-of-flight ultrasonic flowmeter. Take some readings with pumps on and off, and if the smaller pump ain't doing much, turn the damn thing off.

<...For Question 2, I don't know how I can look where the place of the pump will be on its performance curve with increasing suction head pressure. Isn't the TDH the sum of the suction pressure (in head) + the pump's pumping pressure (in head)? Then if the suction pressure is increased the TDH should increased linearly. So is it right for me to look at the performance curve of the above mentioned pump at the head of 3 bar (originally at 5 bar - the increased suction head 2 bar) which will show more flowrate?...>

What does the downstream system characteristic look like? No pump operates without reference to its piping! The answer can be found by reading a flowrate in the downstream piping system.

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#4

Re: Pump (with different TDH) in parallel

03/22/2010 6:47 AM

You have multiple pumps working in parellel, single discharge line.

The line final pressure and the flow of each pump will be decided by the two pump curves.

So usually- unless you cross the limits of one of the pump, bioth pumps will pump out, may not be at the rated (or name plate) capacities, the pump that is supposed to pump at lower pressure will pump less quantity at higher pressure - provided there are no hidden agenda (like a over-pressure relief/safety valve of the pump byepasses the flow).

I don't see any problem on this aspect.

Secondly the pump creates an head, so if you put a bit more pressure on suction, then - again provided the mechanical portion, seals etc withstands the condition, it will generate a pressure Pin+ΔP (in fact we should talk in terms of head to be politically correct)

But always be careful when you put two pump in series, the first pump failure for whatever reason/ unable to supply the needs of second pump suction may result in cavitation damage to the downstream pump.

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#5

Re: Pump (with different TDH) in parallel

03/22/2010 7:13 AM

I'm sure contributors' replies have been helpful, but you need to study the performance curves of the 2 pumps (mainly head vs flow) and the characteristics of the system you're pumping into, and work out what will happen. The results could differ widely depending on the details, and it's hard to cover all cases on a forum like this.

Cheers.........Codey

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Pump (with different TDH) in parallel

03/22/2010 7:26 AM

Thank you all for your guidance, now I could figure it out.

Wish you all the best.

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#7

Re: Pump (With Different TDH) in Parallel

03/23/2010 12:00 AM

Previous posters have answered #1 so I won't touch that.

#2-Excluding the potential for casing breakage, seal leakage, etc. for all practical purposes the performance of a pump is measured across the inlet and the outlet. The pump curve is relative to the pressure between the suction and the discharge. For example if a certain type pump has a rating of 50gpm at a discharge pressure of 40psi (that is 40psi greater than the suction side) then five of these pumps in parrallel will give you 250gpm at 40psi. Put them in series and you will have 50gpm at 200psi discharge pressure. This is the principle of a multistage pump except instead of having seperate pumps you combine several impellers in series within the pump body to get the higher pressure pump and design the pump to be strong enough to withstand the highest operating pressure. Many boiler water feed pumps are like this.

Many fire engines have what are called double stage pumps. They are actually two impellers within the pump body. Maxumum volume is obtained by putting the controls in the "volume" mode and it operates the two impellers in parrallel. Put the controls in the pressure mode and it operates the impellers in series, with twice the "volume mode" pressure but only half the volume pumped. In real life they are common and an example would be to operate with a volume of 2,000gpm at 200psi for the "volume mode" operation and 1,000gpm at 400psi for the "pressure mode" operation. This has the advantage of being able to pump water to higher elevations such as high-rise building stand-pipe systems because of the higher outlet pressure. These pumps are made to be able to operate at the higher pressure, whether they are used at it or not.

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#8

Re: Pump (With Different TDH) in Parallel

03/23/2010 12:16 AM

Your question 1) is not entirely clear.

What is connection scheme of your pumps, a) or b)?

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