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Factors Affecting Op Amp Gain (Closed Loop)

03/23/2010 10:00 AM

I rigged up an instrumentation amplifier circuit using LM324N(4 opamps on one chip). I chose the value of resistors such that the circuit would give an amplification of 620. But when I tested the output on the CRO and found the gain manually, the gain turned out to be mere 150!!! I used 3 opamps and left the terminals of the 4th opamp open. I found out on an article that we need to tie up unused opamps(connect - to ground and + to o/p). Does that help?

The minimum value of resistor I used is 1k and maximum 33k. Is it fine?

What are the factors that affect the gain of the op-amp? Is it affected by inherent shortcomings like input offset voltage or parameters like gain bandwidth product. Please explain.

Also, would it be better to use an instrumentation amplifier chip like AD620 itself? For the gain I'm looking for i.e around 600-700 what would be the best choice?

Thank you.

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#1

Re: Factors affecting op amp gain(closed loop)

03/23/2010 11:09 AM

Your question is on the edge of being a homework question, so a part of me wonders about your objective. At the same time this is a subtle and easily misused analog circuit for anyone. I bring this up to try and prevent a "homework" block from killing this thread and to tell you that I will help you to solve your problem but the answer will not be handed to you.

An instrumentation amplifier circuit is a complicated circuit topology that relies on several parts being critically balanced. Because of this many of the resistors should be matched to maintain the high common mode signal rejection that this circuit can produce. This is the primary feature that is why this topology gets used.

But to get to your specific question about the fourth amplifier. The reason that the unused pins should be tied up are to prevent the fourth amplifier from oscillating and coupling this interference signal into any of the nodes of the other three amplifier circuits.

Now what can reduce the anticipated gain almost always comes from actually having a different circuit than what you thought you had. This difference can come from a variety of different root causes; parasitic effects, poor soldering and cleaning, bandwidth limitations to amplifier gain (you didn't mention at what frequency you tested your gain), errors in measurements, current drive limitations (there's a difference between full scale bandwidth and small signal bandwidth). You mentioned some of the critical parameters in your question. The only way you can learn which parameter is limiting your gain is to do a methodical analysis and then decide on a change in your circuit to test your idea.

Now, I'd like to point out that you do have an easy fix readily available to you. The fourth amplifier can be used to boost your total circuit gain. But until you understand why your instrumentation amplifier circuit does not perform as you originally expected, don't attempt this fix because you won't know what to expect.

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#2

Re: Factors Affecting Op Amp Gain (Closed Loop)

03/23/2010 12:28 PM

You are making the basic mistake of assuming op amps act as perfect devices.
To answer your last Q first:_ Yes you should tie the inputs of unused op amps to stop them oscillating, Off hand I can't remember the recomended way...output to inverting input I think... (I'm sure someone will set me right).
You just are not going to get a massive gain from one op amp.
If you want high gain, spread it over 3 or 4 stages, you will then have a chance to stabilise the dc working point.
If you go for massive gain you are likely to just amplify noise and get the output going hard one way or the other.
Start small and work up, say a gain of 10 in one stage, get that working and add the next stage with gain 10, then a third stage and try with some over all feed back.
You will learn a vast amount by a methodical problem and you will find problems and hopefully solutions which you hadn't even thought off.
Is this an AC signal you are amplifying or DC?

If you really need high gain and bandwidth you will need an instrumentation amp. The LM324 is just a cheapo, solid workhorse (but I still love it )

Your resistor values sound ok (I try to stay below 470k if possible, but have used 2.2 Meg before now) If you are into high gain, you will probably get into decoupling and screening issues too.
Del

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Factors Affecting Op Amp Gain (Closed Loop)

03/23/2010 1:21 PM

Output to inverting input.

Non inverting input to gnd.

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#4
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Re: Factors Affecting Op Amp Gain (Closed Loop)

03/23/2010 1:44 PM

Answers 2 and 3 are good but I would also like to point out that amplfiers are limitted to available power. If the OP has a small power supply he could be exceding its ability which could also explain the apparent lack of amplification. The OP should also remember that his components will convert electrical energy into heat energy thus using a portion of the available power, heat can also effect the resistive value of the op amp circuit which could be substantial if the circuits are being overdriven.

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#5

Re: Factors Affecting Op Amp Gain (Closed Loop)

03/23/2010 5:25 PM

For the price of some $4.00 you get, with AD620, an instrumentation amplifier with a gain to up to 1000. Keep in mind that all the internal resistors are laser trimmed for matching ratios, it saves you, even if you want a large quantity. The difference in price between LM324 and AD620 is offset by the price of 0.1% precision resistors, and the overhead. If it is for one or two devices you might even get samples.

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#6

Re: Factors Affecting Op Amp Gain (Closed Loop)

03/23/2010 10:52 PM

Thanks guys. I hope your suggestions help me solve my problem.

I tested the gain for different frequencies of sine wave and it hardly mattered. The gain was same. I did this circuit on an IC trainer kit using patch cords. Would that be a problem in terms of noise in the circuit?

I used split supplies +12V and -12V. But according to datasheet, its compatible with single supply. But, op-amp didn't work with +5V and ground given to supply terminals. What could be the reason?

This isn't a homework by any means.

Inst. amplifier is one of the several stages of my project and the purpose of this stage is to amplify the signal from IR photodiode-Phototransistor sensor which gives o/p in mV. Oh and I'm working on Heart rate monitor.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Factors Affecting Op Amp Gain (Closed Loop)

03/24/2010 4:31 AM

They are great little op amps and work well on a single rail supply. On a single rail you will need to create a suitable reference voltage (say at half rail) in place of the zero volt reference you had when you used the plus and minus rails.

You didn't say if your amplifier is ac or dc coupled.
BTW. An IC trainer kit will be hopeless for high gain or high frequency work.
Del

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: Factors Affecting Op Amp Gain (Closed Loop)

03/24/2010 7:50 PM

I made one of these some time back using the circuit on the picture I`ve included and used the LM 324 for the op-amps. It worked well. You can do a basic ecg with a dual rail 741 which also gives good results with 10k input and 10M feedback resistors. I don`t have the circuit but it was in "introduction to practical electronics" if I remember. Also check with "everyday practical electronics" mag they have put some ecg circuits into the mag over the years. An even simpler way I invented was to take a drawing pin (thumbtack to Americans) and shorten the point. Place the point onto a piezo sounder through the air hole. Put the large side of the pin on your artery on your wrist. Hold it on with knicker elastic and put the output of the piezo onto an analogue pin of a PIC microcontroller. When your heart beats the piezo is stimulated by the pin and produces a pulse easily read by the PIC. Have fun.

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#11
In reply to #6

Re: Factors Affecting Op Amp Gain (Closed Loop)

03/25/2010 11:55 AM

You still are not telling us anything useful to let us help you.

I tested the gain for different frequencies of sine wave and it hardly mattered.

That's nice. What frequencies did you test? What amplitudes were the signals?

An IC trainer kit using patch cords will likely not be ideal, but it can be done. A voltage gain of 620 with a 1MHz GBW would expect to have no more than a 1.6kHz response.

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#7

Re: Factors Affecting Op Amp Gain (Closed Loop)

03/24/2010 12:12 AM

Dear friend,

Any where gain and bandwidth product is constant, so i would like know the input signal frequency.

And unused op-amps will cause oscillations in supply voltage only there won't be any effect on gain of the op-amp, so they recommend you to terminate them with appropriate circuit.

The termination can be done in this passion, just make it a voltage follower (i.e feed your out put to inverting terminal and bias the non-inverting terminal with some 1V)

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#9

Re: Factors Affecting Op Amp Gain (Closed Loop)

03/24/2010 7:06 AM

Given the gain bandwidth product of approx 1MHz or less, the maximum frequency at 620 gain will be less than 10kHz. the LM324 data-sheet shows the maximum large signal falling off above 6kHz.

The LM324 is a fairly slow device which is not suited for high gain/high bandwidth applications so bandwidth and peak to peak voltage swing are all critical to your success.

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