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Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/19/2010 12:14 AM

Need the wire rope drum typical design to have a nice wire wrapping with over laps of the cable, we have an 32 mm diameter wire rope cable on a large drum with 10 layers and 1900 ft of cable, that is not winding correctly and the cable crosses one or two winds giving a hump on the cable drum.

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#1

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/19/2010 3:04 AM

I spent a little time operating a winch truck with around 300m of 20mm diameter cable. (Winding cable with no cable guide, dredging dams)

The problem when this happened was almost ALWAYS the approach angle of the cable, inconsistent tension on the cable, uneven load on the cable, spool too close to source.

It may be that the cable is "new" and has some residual twist and kinks in it and needs to have those relaxed before it is wound onto the bobbin.

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#7
In reply to #1

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/22/2010 2:39 PM

Yes thank you our cable is new very expensive non rotating and we do not want to became used very fast, we have a good distance and small angle to the center pulley above the winch.

We do not have a grooved bottom winch, we have not any specification to do it, also we do not have the exact drum width to match the cable diameter at exact certain number of turns.Probably this are some reasons

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#2

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/19/2010 7:12 PM

I don't have time to do it right now, but I would search on "fairlead" or "cable winder", hoping to find a pair of guide rollers that traverse the width of the drum in proportion to the drum's rotation.

Patent 7,463,259--unless it turns out to be prior art.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/20/2010 2:20 AM

I have now tried those searches, but turned up nothing useful.

What you need is a device that for each turn of the drum advances across the drum by the diameter of the cable, and then returns in the opposite direction. Fishing reels sort of do this, as does a "Yankee" screwdriver. The principle is a barrel cam with a helical channel that reverses into an opposite helix that criss-crosses the first.

For a cable drum, this device would move a pair of rollers that would guide the cable to the proper point as it wraps onto the drum.

I imagine something like this is already manufactured, but I am not remembering and mfr names, nor their terminology.

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#4

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/20/2010 3:09 AM

I would suggest you have a twist in the lay of the rope if it is fairly new, I used to have a problem when renewing the rope on an overhead crane, the falls on this crane were 150 feet, the replacement rope drum would be positioned at the lowest point that the hook would be working, the old rope rope would be wound off, this crane had a double spool, the old rope would be taken off, the new rope was then secured to a length of ordinary rope, leaving about 6ft. of bight, the new rope was then wound off, and lifted to the spool approx. 150 feet above, by using the now empty spool with a few turns of the lifting rope around the spool, and operating the crane by means of the pendant control when the end was in place it was attached to one of the spools, and secured with the clamp, the remaining rope on it's transporting drum was then reeved off the drum, and laid so that there were no twists, the end was then fed through the sheeve on the hook block assy,and hoisted up to the second drum, any twist was shaken out, and attached to the second spool and secured, the crane was then operated on lift by means of the pendant control, and several turns would be put on the spools to check for twist, if done correctly, the rope would always fall back on the next layer, I would hasten to add the spools were scrolled in order to lead the rope correctly.I imagine your crane must be a single lift type, or maybe a double lift with one end secured, and a shieve on the block.

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#5

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/20/2010 5:41 AM

Is this is an on going production or a one off,or a fixed drum on a mobile base with the same cable being runout & rewound back onto the same drum? If it's a one off then hand guide it, the other two would be best to guide mechanically, what is the norm is a carriage that holds the cable (normally with rollers) that will guide the cable, this is attached to a left/right square cut threaded bar the width of the drum which is synchronized with the drum revolutions, so if you have 10 widths of 32mm = 320mm the drum turns 10 times to 1 layer so the screw needs to be 320 long,when the carriage reaches the end it will automatically start to return. The carriage mustn't be too close to the drum so as to force the cable. I've done this with smaller cable & it works.

Bazzer

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#6

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/20/2010 9:01 AM

You need a levelwind mechanism. there are two types, a diamond screw type which has a fixed advance lead based on the diameter of the drum and the diameter of the cable (by far the most common type) and then there is a straight screw type which has a reversing mechanism at the ends of travel, some also have a means to gauge if the cable is wrapping at the wrong angle due to the levelwind advancing too slow or fast for the wire diameter and the drum diameter and speeds or slows the levelwind mechanism to compensate. These are the best types of systems but they are not real common, at least not in the oil and gas industry (the controls are usually not able to be made explosion proof/intrinsically safe, and many of these types of reels are used in explosive environments). The diamond screw type usually have a clutch that the operator has to constantly play with to keep it wrapping correctly, and if the diameter of the rope/hose ever changes, then the turns ratio gets screwed up and it doesn't wrap right again. The flange to flange distance needs to be an even multiple of the diameter of the cable plus half the cable diameter. I.E. for your 1-1/4" cable above, say you have 30 wraps (picking number out of air for example) per layer. you will need the flange to flange distance to be 30.5 x 1.25 or 38-1/8". for wire rope, you probably only need to add no more than another 1/8" for slop, if that. For hydraulic hoses you would need to add more to account for expansion when they are pressurized. This flange spacing allows the same number of wraps per layer, offset by 1/2 of the cable diameter. There will be one spot on each wrap where it crosses over the wrap below it going the other direction, this is unavoidable and is expected.

I've designed all sorts of winches and reels, everything from ROV launch and recovery systems to coiled tubing reels to hydraulic umbilical reels for subsea wellhead controls.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/22/2010 3:57 PM

Thank you, our actual dimensions are from flange to flange 556 mm for a 22mm cable (is an Italian cable in metric), we actually have: 25.22 wraps, so according to your numbers we should it had: lets say for 25 wraps = 550 mm + 2.8 mm(1/8") = 552.8 mm , so actually have an extra of 3.2mm a little over 1/8" more, I guess this means that the coming wrap will be climbing just a little later that it should to the exact 25 wraps, do you think this could be a problem?, would we need to adjust the width?, to leave exactly the 1/8" extra spacing?.

I agree probably we will need a level-wind mechanism, but will need to be very strong, we are carrying 10 ton pull on this cable and the side tension is high.

Do you know of a company that can help us on this mechanism?

Thank you for your time.

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/22/2010 6:31 PM

My company could probably design one for you. if you'd like to contact me via PM we can discuss it.

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#14
In reply to #9

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

05/30/2011 5:33 PM

Dear Sir.

The diamond screw shaft and level winder device can wind the rope onto the drum smooth, correctly and evenly.

I submit a preliminary design of diamond screw shaft to you for your reference.

Diameter of diamond screw: 60mm

Width of drum: 556mm

Pawl travel distance: 534mm

Pitch: 42mm

Turns: 13

Under-cut: 6mm

I submit some photos to you for your reference.

If you want to know further information, Please view following website:

http:/www.daliandehua.com.cn

Best regards

Winch Spooling

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#15
In reply to #9

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

06/02/2011 8:20 AM

Dear Sir.

The diamond screw shaft and level winder device can wind the rope onto the drum smooth, correctly and evenly.

I submit a preliminary design of diamond screw shaft to you for your reference.

Diameter of diamond screw: 60mm

Width of drum: 556mm

Pawl travel distance: 534mm

Pitch: 42mm

Turns: 13

Under-cut: 6mm

I submit some photos to you for your reference.

If you want to know further information, Please view following website:

http:/www.daliandehua.com.cn

Best regards

Winch Spooling

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#8

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/22/2010 3:37 PM

You could add some material inside one flange to make the flange-to-flange spacing match the (n + 0.5)d criterion.

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#10

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/22/2010 4:03 PM

Yes we are already trying to fix the side inside flanges with extra plates as you could see on the photo.

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#11

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/22/2010 6:03 PM

This is good stuff. The originator has come back with meaningful information, pictures and so on. This one cares enough to help us to help him.

Good on you Roberto!!

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#13

Re: Wire Rope Drum Winding

08/22/2010 10:10 PM

Thank yourselves I will try to get a video with the hump, sometimes the cable lays down ok and sometimes donĀ“t

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Bangorjohn (1); Bazzer Englander (1); Just an Engineer (2); ROBERTO GONZALEZ I (4); Rorschach (2); Tornado (3); Winch Spooling (2)

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