Previous in Forum: 12Vdc Motor/Generator   Next in Forum: Current Density Value Suitable for Different 3 Phase Transformers
Close
Close
Close
15 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Member

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5

How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/15/2010 6:32 AM

Hello All, I have a qustion and need all your helps. Recently, I am requested to do an important study that calls "Real Voltage Supply Survey". The fundamental aim of this survey study is to discover the real average voltage supply all around the world. The declared electricity supply in most countries today is 220V – 240V. However, the actual average voltage supplied from the national grid often deviates from these declared values. Evidently, in the United Kingdom, the actual measured average voltage supplied (in mainland UK) is 242V, a significant difference from declared value 230V (need to insert reference).

Now I am looking for help that can provide any data of these countries: Germany, Italy, Austria, Belgium, Hungary..

Please kindly help!

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: Optimisation optimiser power Voltage
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#1

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/15/2010 7:15 AM

When do we get to the marketing angle of this and the other posts? So far you've posted the same question in two other forums in the last ½ hour.

PS the voltage in the UK is lumpy it keeps going up and down 100 times a second, doesn't seem able to settle on one steady value!

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#2
In reply to #1

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/15/2010 7:23 AM

Correction four other forums!

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Member

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5
#3
In reply to #1

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/15/2010 7:25 AM

I am asking help on this for the study that's why I express several questions in different parts and hope someone can help me to get any data for real voltage supply

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - Lifelong New Yorker Popular Science - Biology - Animal Science Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Technical Writer

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 2313
Good Answers: 59
#5
In reply to #3

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/15/2010 8:12 AM

The duplicate posts were removed. They violate CR4's site use policy - it is listed in several places, including the page you use to post a new thread, that you should not post the same question multiple times:

Do not post the same thread multiple times. The CR4 Admin will delete all but the most appropriate instance, or we may delete them all.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Member

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5
#10
In reply to #5

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/15/2010 9:35 AM

Noted.

Sorry for any trouble

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#6
In reply to #3

stealth moderators

10/15/2010 8:22 AM

Don't think you'll get much from the other forums, the stealth moderators have been in action again!

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - Lifelong New Yorker Popular Science - Biology - Animal Science Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Technical Writer

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 2313
Good Answers: 59
#7
In reply to #6

Re: stealth moderators

10/15/2010 8:26 AM

Tony - In the comment above yours I explained why the duplicate postings were removed. They violate CR4's site use policy. In the CR4 FAQ we explain that we'll delete duplicate postings. That's perfectly clear.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#11
In reply to #7

Re: stealth moderators

10/15/2010 9:32 PM

Every other board I'm a member of the moderators are identified, not so on CR4.

Hence stealth moderator.

We must have been typing at the same time, as your comment wasn't on screen when I started.

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1294
Good Answers: 35
#4

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/15/2010 7:31 AM

How was that actual average in the mainland UK measured?

I think you somehow have to get more specific (or learn more about power distribution). I won't try to state much correctly here, but, in general:

* power supply at the source must be higher than at the site of use to account for things like voltage drop in the supply lines * the power at the generating site is typically (ime) not generated at 230 volts, but instead at a much higher voltage--furthermore, it is stepped up even higher before it is sent out over transmission lines towards the customer

* all equipment (are there any exceptions) with a rated voltage (like 115 v, common in the US, or 230 v) is intended to operate on a range of voltage, commonly 110 to 125 for 115 volt ratings.

* motors, as an example, work better with higher voltages--a motor rated at 115 volts will typically work "better" at 125 volts in that it will draw less current and run cooler

* it wouldn't surprise me if the target in the UK was 242 volts at the secondary terminals of the distribution transformer (the last one before the customer(s) (and there are typically several customers on any given transformer)--by the time the voltage gets into the customers' premises (with a typical load operating), maybe the first customer is getting 240 volts at his distribution panel--customers further down the (240 volt) line will each see lower and lower voltages--with luck, the last one on the line will see 230 volts at his distribution panelI don't think this is a reflection on power quality.

If you want to talk about power quality, I think you want to talk about things like interruptions to service, noise on the power lines, ...

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Liverpool, NY
Posts: 961
Good Answers: 131
#8
In reply to #4

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/15/2010 9:28 AM

Following on what Rhkramer says in his last sentence, statistics on interruptions are tabulated and published for all major US utilities (and may be for other nations - you'd need to search a little but they should be publicly available) due to regulatory requirements. Failure to meet certain minimum or maximum limits often lead to fines. These measures include CAIDI (Customer Average Interruption Duration Index), SAIDI (System Avg Interruption Duration Index) and several others. See the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAIDI

__________________
To get the right answers, first you need to ask the right questions.
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5
#9
In reply to #8

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/15/2010 9:32 AM

OK, I will check more.

Anyway, thank you for this suggestion.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member United Kingdom - Big Ben - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Altair 8800 - New Member Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3968
Good Answers: 120
#12

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/16/2010 9:40 AM

I expect power quality tobe good. Small countries with an internal power grid, slowly coupled to other countries to share power, but with the ability to disconnect their country, would lead to a robust system. Now with the ECM, has this led to larger blocks? I suspect the old country based system persists, even as there is more and more widespread power distribution. The large solar projects in Spain might need a very high voltage link, or even a DC link. Are there many DC links in Europe>

__________________
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#13

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/16/2010 11:23 AM

I think it's a futile exercise actually. What a country says it its "standard" voltage supply has more to do with local politics and God knows politics has almost NOTHING to do with reality! In other words, there was a movement a few years ago across the EU to "harmonize" the voltage levels between countries. But in reality, nobody was going to go out and replace thousands upon thousands of transformers in order to accomplish this. All it really did was to make device manufacturers provide for a harmonized utilization voltage rating of their point of use equipment which allows for the common level everyone was trying to attain. So some countries were 380/220V, some were 415/240V, therefore they compromised on 400/230V as the "harmonized" standard. But that does not mean that if you walk up to an outlet in the UK with a meter, it is going to read 230V, it's much more likely to read (closer to*) 240V

* The "closer to" issue is my second point. In order to get a "real" average, you would have to get the average of the averages, a daunting task to be sure. That's because in every distribution system, there is an allowable tolerance, usually +- 5% at least, which will mean at any two points in a local distribution grid, you may be able to see a 10% delta. So to try to extend that to an entire country made up of thousands of local interconnected grids would take years of study.

By the way if you read that document I linked to above, you will see that they did exactly that. But I dare say they had a substantial cadre of people doing this research, I doubt one person could do it in a lifetime.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brasov, Romania
Posts: 255
Good Answers: 7
#14

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/18/2010 2:25 AM

Where I live now, in Braşov, România, the voltage varies between 200 and 225 V. I used to live in another part of the town up until august where the voltage was around 235V because I was close to the distribution transformer. The standard voltage is 230/400V.

__________________
The time is ......now
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5
#15
In reply to #14

Re: How is the Power Quality of European Countries?

10/18/2010 2:33 AM

Thank you for your information!

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 15 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

aurizon (1); JRaef (1); nikolay (1); PeterT (1); rhkramer (1); SavvyExacta (2); TonyS (4); vanguardspower (4)

Previous in Forum: 12Vdc Motor/Generator   Next in Forum: Current Density Value Suitable for Different 3 Phase Transformers

Advertisement