Philippines - RE Project # 10-02

How much BUBBLE GAS is available?

what is the methane number of the gas or watergas as you say!

crm

No Technical Study has been performed to determine the Type & Volume of Natural Gas. To get this info, what needs to be done?

I have lived in northern Mindanao (Iligan City, specifically) for about thirteen years, and have never heard this story. My advice is to keep your checkbook in your pocket until you have seen this phenomenon with your own eyes and tested it with your own instruments. This country is full of fanciful stories, including my favorite which says that the water in the bottom of the Philippine Deep is pure heavy water (deuterium oxide). Depending on who is telling the story, it is being mined by the CIA [?], NASA [?] or other mysterious and sinister entities. I wish it were true.

I'll be happy to have a look if you want to give me coordinates...

Guest,

The Good & the Bad are everywhere - in my Country (Philippines) and in yours. Believe it or not, I myself went to visit this sleepy town - and saw for myself Household Gas Stoves (connected to Water Wells) burning non-stop. Giving you GPS Coordinates of the place wont be good enough. But I challenge you to come to Manila - and for us together to visit this place. If you wont see what I saw, call me a Liar - and compel me to pay for your Transport Cost. On the other hand, should you get to see what I saw, you must then reimburse me for my Transport Cost.

In this world, a lot is possible. How many stoves are working on it and what are they cooking. Just try to figure out what I can eat and if 1 Megawatt is a doable project. It is a lot more than e.g. 100 stoves. A ticket Miami- Manila is now $1360.00. From there how does it go?

They used to do this in the Netherlands. They would push and hammer a pipe down into the ground and gassy water would bubble up through the pipe. (Because it is on slowly decomposing silty peaty deposits from the Rhine river). They let the water into a nearby canal and collected the gas. There are a few problems. The water is anoxic and contains sulphides and other bad stuff. It caused lots of damage to the fishlife in the waterways. I do not think anyone has the right to do it anymore in the Netherlands. I saw it in a museum or a newspaper story when I lived there. If you could prevent the water getting to fish, it has merit in my view. Methane is a seriously bad greenhouse gas.

I have been offered 1 MW biogas electrical plants, consisting of a biogas digestor which produces the combustible gas and of a generating plant of 1 MW. It is modular, that is, you can add up to 5 units.

I think the generating set could be powered by the water gas, provided there is enough flow of this combustible gas.

Were you interested in this proposal I could check it with the manufacturers of the plant.

Arturo

Show us some photos at least!

Flammable gases emanating and seeping up from deeply buried pipes used to bring up well waters are considered a norm in most parts and regions of the Philippines where coconut plantations are abound. Although it is very possible that these gases can be collected and harnessed as fuels for domestic use, sustainable commercial quantity will be an issue that needs to be quantified!

i am also in the Phil...this phenomenon was televised in the local tv station long time a ago (MGB) host by our fomerly Vice President. yes its true,but the location not so sure and that was long time ago. maybe another place...but to sustain a 1 megawatts power plant,maybe impossible.and besides this southern part of the philippines (Mindanao) has a lot of bandits.

Tell us what town or river is it located or even what province in northern mindanao and probably some of us can tell wether this is true or not. Could be the same as those in early 70s when they put in the news that some oil was discovered in some island, immediately people traded heavily in the oil company stock, only to know later there were drums of oils poured on it. Some of us have may known nothern mindanao, and for all you know, maybe older and wiser to know that this is just another story.

Until you have some volume and quantity analysis you have nothing more than tea room talk.

Preferred collaborators? Don't be choosy - better take any you can get for your scam.

Indeed, there are cynics in this world. Nevertheless, I posted in the hope of getting Answers from Technical Experts on Natural Gas on my Question: What more needs to be done to determine QUALITY & VOLUME of this Natural Gas resource - given that Water Wells (2" dia-pipe x 320' deep) already exist?

Posts #1 and #2, asked you the key questions.

To answer your post #3. To that you need to;

A. use a flow meter to find the volume

B. take a sample to analysis, to find out the calorific value / cubic foot or metre, and how much 'cleaning' is required before it can be fed to a ICE or turbine.

C. come back with the numbers

Meanwhile do understand that people will mess about (more) if they see you are not reading / not recognising "sound advice"

When you talk about a water well with pipes of 2", there must be gas coming out to cook. You cannot light a stove with water. How is the separation done? Or is there only gas coming out of the pipe? In this case calling it a water well, is confusing. Are there "popping sounds"? Depending on what you feed us, we will try to answer. What needs to be done: 1. For the quality and composition, a gas test should be performed with simple reactants in a colon, or with a gas chroma. If perhaps Hydrogen is coming out, with a flame spectrum analyzer. (I use a United Analyst) 2. To determine the volume is difficult, because you don't fit in the pipe to go and look below. But the flow can be measured with a flow meter when you can separate the gas.

The Top End of the 2" dia-pipe has Water flowing out of the 320' deep Well. The Top of the Water Well is covered by a Plastic Tank with its very Top inserted by a Plastic Hose connected to a Household Cooking Gas Stove which I found burning non-stop. The Water is simply left flowing continuously to the ground. Sadly, I don't have pictures to show.

The water of the well was it pumped up or free flowing? What is the destination for the water?

The burners of the stove: what is the color of the flames, and the intensity?

Compared to your city gas (which) how is it reacting?

Is the burner orifice in the stove for butane, propane or Natural gas? Is the cooking capacity the same?

The plastic tank, is it a 55 gallon drum? How big is the opening at the bottom? How high from the ground? How high goes the 2" pipe in it? Is the 2" pipe vertical up? How much water comes out of the pipe? (approx.) In the case a pump is applied, what happens with the gas when the water is not pumped up?

If the water is pumped up, next question is how much is the motor of the pump in Watts, kW or HP. What is the weight of that plastic tank and the diameter and does it stay on top of the pipe? Is there also gas escaping from the bottom of the plastic tank? I suggest it has a loose fit or none?

Just to get more ideas to determine what kind of gas composition to expect. Is the water contaminated with color? Odor? floating particles? Can you collect some water and let it sink down in a glass jar or plastic can or bottle? Fill some PET bottles half way,(if available 2 Liter bottles like from soda's) and keep up with some chronological database. Do the same with tight capped bottles for further simple tests. As for the capacity of used gas, you can use a cooking pot with a known volume of water and you'll need a thermometer to measure the start temperature before it goes on the stove. Write down these values and monitor the time for each pot to make the water boil. (all simultaneously) It will take some preparation to do all this, but once you are ready with the results, bring these back into the forum. If there is not too much CO2 in your feed and it is big enough of a source we have a better clue to form an opinion. Your by then gathered data are really necessary for it. Tks

1. The Water from the deep Well simply pours out of the covered Top-End of the 2" dia-pipe - without need of pumping. The 320' vertically-embedded 2" dia-pipe has its Top-End about 2' high above the cemented Ground-base. About 1' below the very Top-End of the Pipe is a 2' long horizontal pipe form which the Well-Water flows out non-stop. The Well's Cover (Plastic or Steel Round Drum cut in half and with the Bottom-Opening resting loosely on the Cement Ground-Base) has a 1" dia-Plastic Hose (at its Conical-Top) connected to the Household LPG Cooking Gas Stove - 1 burner, 2 burners, 3 burners. However, Rural Folks do not use LPG-in-Tanks - but instead only this free-flowing Natural Gas;

2. The Water coming out of the Well (observed with "bubbles") is odorless, colorless, & potable - in some wells. Rural Folks do not drink Water from Other Wells because of TASTE;

3. The Pressure of the Natural Gas is responsive to Low, Medium, High settings of the Gas Stove. The Flame in the Cooking Gas Stoves appears more Blue - than Orange;

4. FYI. Thanks.

Most likely it is low calorific gas and would have to be burned to use it.

In the province of Laguna, which is about 50 miles south of Manila, I personally experienced taking a bath /washing from this so called natural spring water. This natural spring water was piped out off the ground to facilitate its constant flow. The pipe is about 3 - 4 inches in diameter, about 3 ft. from the ground, where water is free flowing out on its side through some sort of troughing that is situated about 6 - 8 inches from the top end of this 3-4 inches pipe. The top end of the pipe is pretty much capped except for a very small vent opening on the top end.

When dark sets in and through the night, any local people passing by will just strike a match at this vent hole and a continues small blue flame will continuously burn through the night. They use this as their light that helps illuminate whatever they're doing as well as the immediate surroundings. This blue flame is only about an inch maybe an inch and half at the most in height. During the day when I inspected this same hole, no significant pressure or smell was sensed nor felt?? The closest smell that can be associated is the same as the local alcoholic beverage concocted by the locals from the coconut fruits.

By the way this province is full of coconut plantations, not yet electrified and therefore only using gas or alcohol lamps as their means of illuminating their houses during the early 1960s when I observed and experienced the above.

this is of different location. manilaman mentioned it to be in Northern Mindanao.

Indeed, I've read an official report mentioning that the Philippines has a number of sites with Natural Gas reserves. I would not be surprise that Laguna (specially towns along the Bay) could also have Natural Gas. But what I saw was in Northern Mindanao.

That is true, I just emphasized that what Manilaman stated is real based on my own experience. I also added that repeatability and prevalence of such scenario do exist mostly in areas or regions of the country with very large coconut plantations.

Main question will be sustainability of the project. After investing millions of $ or Pesos for the equipment and construction, the project may live only for a few yrs because there are no gas coming out of the well. russ 123 (reply # 21)maybe right and it just needs to be burned. dmvdsc (reply #17) is a good start to study this further.

@ Guest - Agreed with your point as well but what I wanted to say in my previous comment is that likely the calorific value is low and not suitable for an ICE however it could be burned in a boiler or used in a gas turbine with a specially designed combustion chamber.

Next question - who owns the gas that escapes from the well - the person that owns the well or does a different party own underground resources?

Russ

In the Philippines, ALL Natural Resources are owned by the State - regardless of where it's sited, Public or Private lands. Hence, the Right-to-Develop (subject to pre-conditions) a Natural Resource has to be secured from the appropriate Gov't agency. In this case, our DOE grants a Service Contract to the qualified Applicant for a Franchise-to-Develop/Operate.