tig welded with ss rod will work just fine

what about if i have dc2 header that goes with 2 peaces. and i dont have a gasket for that header. could i weld the two peace of header TOGETHER. therefore so i could never worry about that gasket.

here is what i mean..

http://www.j-imports.com.au/uParts/SpoonDC2.jpg

Stainless steel rods 316L or 317 grade Tig or stick or mig depending on your requirements.

remember stainless to mild.309 is a great rod for the app funny puddle though takes some gettin used to

Hi"

The best way to successfully weld SS to MS or even Hardened Tool steel to MS is to use Magna 303 welding rod mfg by Magna Industrial, Australia. It has been tried and tested and is the only successful way to weld different steels and the weld has a tensile strength of 1,20000 psi, but these rods are expensive and suitable primarily for maintanence or repair welding

thanks

sridhar

Yes, Magna 303 is a good choice.

Fo completing the job by MMAW, there are other options like ;

1. Oerlikon Fon E-106

2. Eutectic 680.

From my point of view, and due to high temperatures while the engine is running and driving, I recommend using a stainless steel flange to be welded to stainless steel pipe.

Take into consideration that welding of dissimilar metals casues a galvanic corrosion.

Normally when you need to weld stainless steel with carbon steel you have to use a suitable buttering electrode before apply of fill and cover. The buttering electrode is differs from fill & cover electrode.

I would say have the flange drawn on cad and lasercut a few out of SS.(you will keep them spare). I agree that you can weld SS to MS, but like #4 said galvanic corrosion will happen. Especially with high temp. that will accilerate the metal binding with O2. Taking in consideration that you are spending time and effort into this project, it will be a pity if it will have to be redone because the SS pipe corroded and needs to be replaced... Another option is to use a thicker guage MS pipe and keep the MS flange.

The stainless steel pipe will not corrode (noble with low galvanic potential V=0.5 @ 18%Cr). The mild steel flange (very active with high galvanic potential V=0.85) will corrode. If you really want to see some nice corrosion try hot-dipped zincing your mild steel flange (V=1.20). Acceptable ranges: harsh environment delta V<=0.15, normal environment delta V<=0.25; controlled environment delta V<=0.5. Hot dipped steel V=1.2, SS V=0.5===> delta V=1.2-0.5=0.7.

DEAR FRIEND,

1. FOR HIG TEMP. SERVICE MS (or) CS FLANGES ARE NOT RECOMMENDED DUE TO SCALLING AND CORROSION.. SAME SS MATERIAL IS BETTER.

2. U HAVE NOT MENTIONED THE PIPE GRADE, SCHEDULE AND FLANGE THICKNESS. IF IT HAS TO BE CS, THEN THE THE FLANGE THICKNESS SHOULD BE HIGH TO AVOID SCALING.

3. SINCE IT IS A FLANGE TO PIPE IT SHOULD BE A GROOVE FILLET JOINT.

4. ASSUMING THE PIPE MTRL IS OF SA - 312 GR TP 304 (or) 316 AND IF WELDED TO SIMILAR FLANGE MATERIAL AND CONSIDERING A FILLET JOINT, SMAW PROCESS IS OK. U CAN USE SIMILAR TO PARENT / BASE MATERIAL TYPE OF SS ELECTRODES i.e., E 304 (or) E 316. IN 3.20 & 4.00 mm SIZES FOR WELDING BUTT AND FILLET JOINTS.

5. IF THE WELDING IS TO DISSIMILAR MATERIALS, i.e., BETWEEN SS TO CARBON STEELS USE E 309 (or) E 310 AND IT WORKS WELL TO RESIST CORROSION AND ALSO TEMPERATURES. UPTO 1000⁰C & 1050⁰C RESPECTIVELY.

6. ALTERNATIVELY, INCONEL TYPE ELECTRODES, E NiCrFe-2 (or) E NiCrFe-3 ARE RECOMMENDED TO WELD SS TO CS FOR USE AT CONTINUOUS ELEVATED TEMPERATURES, AND TO AVOID CORROSION AT NORMAL / ELEVATED TEMPS & SCALLING. IT ALSO POSSESSES GOOD THERMAL AND SHOCK RESISTANCE.

7. IF THE PROCESS IS GTAW, (TIG) FOR THIN WALL JOINTS, SIMILAR COMPOSITION FILLER MATERIAL COULD BE USED IN 2.00 & 2.50 mm SIZES.

WARM REGARDS,

SRIDHAR

Over the years, my experience is that coated 312 L stainless steel rods are the best material to weld dissimilar metals, even of unknown composition. I have welded spring steel with this type of rods and bent the spring ssteel with no cracking of the weld joint. It would be much easier to weld stainless steels with carbon steels with 312L..

As others have said it would probably be best if both parts were stainless;that being said there is a rod i have worked with specifically for the purpose of welding mild steel to stainless, or welding dissimilar stainless together. Carbide precipitation and subsequent embrittlement would be my concern. Might be a good idea to preheat both to 300-350, and post heat as well. Just because stainless steel is chosen it does not guarantee it will not corrode. Remember it is stain-LESS, not stain-PROOF. In fact, in an environmment of high heat and presence of carbon monoxide gasses, certain stainless would not be a wise choice at all. Find out which material would be suited to your application before locking yourself into a couse of action. Let us know what you found!

You can force- weld any steel of diverse compositions with TIG or MIG/MAG.

But what properties you will get out of this solidifiying pool-- corrosion resistance, ductility, yield /UTS --- is your luck!.

Nobody ever standardized on a terrible composition with C=0.2%,Cr=9%,Ni=4.5%( average of SS304 and C15 ms) it might behave like stone for weldmetal strength and worse than ms for corrosion resistance.

You need fundas right -crystallography/metallurgy/grain boundaries.

Stick to knowhow evolved in 100+ years.

Going to all SS, as mentioned would be the best, but SS/MS will work fine for automotive applications. Probably more important is where you weld and how you support your pipe. You should weld the pipe to the flange all the way round on the engine side and have three tack welds on the downstream side of the flange. This will support your pipe the best and help prevent cracking. Avoid lrge cantilever loads on the pipe by providing good flexible support and try to make allowances for expansion and vibration. Slip or ball joints will greatly increase the life of your exhaust.

John

How about going to all mild steel? I say this because the flange from the turbo outlet and the 3-bolt exhaust flange are both mild steel and the pipe is 3" x .065" tp304 ss. It might be easier if I use a different pipe that is of a different bend anyway. thanks again

AS I SAID EARLIER, GOING ALL MS IS A WASTE OF TIME AND MTRL. THIS IS DUE TO HEAVY SCALING AT ELEVATAED TEMPS AND HAS LITTLE LIFE SPAN.

EVEN ALLOY STEEL CAN NOT HAVE A CONTINUED LONGER LIFE AT ELEVATED TEMPS. ONLY SS 316 , 309 (or) 410, 430 CAN HELP U AND E 309 / E 310 ELECTRODES ARE BEST BET TO WELD THEM WITHOUT PRE HEAT AND POST HEAT TREATMENT.

NO PRE HEATING TO BE DONE FOR ANY OF AUSTENITE SS MATERIAL PRIR TO WELDING AND U HAVE TO CONTROL INTERPASS TEMP TO AVOID EVAPORATION OF CR & NI ELEMENTS DUIRNG ARCING CYCLE.

SRIDHAR

This is the simplest and best!

Auto exhaust pipes even in sports cars are ms --Aluminized inside and out.

G'day, I had exactly this situation in the late 1970's and early 1980's. I turbocharged an early model (1974) 4.2l petrol Toyota Lancruiser. As you will understand I had to manufacture most of my fittings and exhaust parts myself. I simply used 316 ss electrodes for all my welding of SS to mild steel and even cast iron and had no issues with strength or durability (in challenging off road conditions). The exhaust system outlasted the engine which eventually failed due to age and overwork. I have an electrical background and asked construction welders and boilermakers for advice at the time. I hope this is helpful but I'm sure that engineers trained in the field will disagree with my comments.

regards

Shane

Mr. SHANE IS CORRECT IN ONE WAY. ANY SS ELECTRODE WILL WORK WONDERS ON SS TO MS WELDING AND EVEN ON REPIRING OF CI. BUT E 309 IS A BETTER OPTION OVER E316 AS ITS 25/12 CR-NI RATIO WILL REDUCE CARBON PRECIPITATION COMPARED TO 19/12/MO IN E 316 TYPE . MO (MOLY) PLAYS ITS ROLE AS A GOOD CREEP RESISTER AT HIGH TEMP.

FURTHER 309 WITH-STANDS HIGER TEMP. SERVICE COMPARED TO 304 & 316 AND GOOD FOR WELDING THEM WITH CS. IT ALSO HAS STRONG CHEMICAL INFLUENCE AND RESISTS INTERCRYSTALLINE CORROSION AND GRAIN DISINTEGRATION.

SRIDHAR

This is probably heresy but I've had perfectly good results in the past welding SS to MS with a old fashioned stick welder and a good quality multi purpose rod.

I'll qualify this by saying that I've never tested the results at the temperatures of a turbo outlet.

Heresy? Nahh! I have welded 304 and 316 stainless couplings to A-36 mild steel as well as flanges hundreds of times with good old fashioned 7018 low hydrogen. Twenty years ago, they are still there. LOL

pipeliner_guy

Since I have the ss304 pipe and the ms flanges, I will go ahead and weld them with a ss electrode E309 or E316. I'll try the ss electrodes and keep you guys updated on how these parts will react to the heat with the corrosion and strength. If that setup fails, i'll try and get some ss309 pipes and flanges welded them with the E309 electrodes-should be the ultimate setup right? Also, like some of you mentioned earlier, I will keep the exhaust at a relaxed state, considering any stress on these welds. thanks again for all the help

JOSH

If you weld SS to MS in an enviroment such as an exhaust system, is there not going to be a problem with rates of expansion and therefore cracking the thin ss pipe after time. When i turbocharged my car i used SS throughout the exhaust manifold. Be careful when welding the manifold flange to the pipes and the intense heat of tig warps the manifold even when bolted to a jig.

Hope it works well!

Chris R UK

Call any estabished welding suppy center and ask them for the current best rods for joining dissimilar metals. These rods are expensive but they do not fail for the reasons other rods like SS might.

I don't believe that the m.s. and s.s. together are 'dissimiler' enough to create much of a galvanic effect. alloy composition is very small %V wise.

From my days of stick welding, you have to use stainless rod when welding stainless to CS or CS to stainless. It does matter which type of stainless you are using (300 or 400 series) I have found that when welding dissimilar metals, using the higher alloy material will not crack, result in galvanic corrosion, or stress crack. When available, always TIG and use the higher alloy.

There are manufacturers of bi mettalic flanges, in my experience i have see these used on ship building where you may have a steel deck with stainless steel drain scuppers penetrating - these need to be fully welded together and the use of a bi mettalic flange is recomended to joint the 2 metals.

May be of use.

I also doing a turbo project I have a mig welder and I might weldiing the stainless steel hearder flanges to 1 5/8 mild steel header piping. Would that work? Also I plan on getting jet hot coating on them. thanks

Hey! its been a long while since I posted, but I got that mild steel flange welded to that ss pipe at a shop and the welds are tiny and clean must be a tig..? Then got it ceramic coated and heat wrapped, looks NICE!!

About mig welding ss to ms, in my past experiences in just "going for it", I didn't have too much luck. The wire seems to want to pop and leave blobs of spot welds on the metal, not really sealing anything!. I'm not sure but maybe different wire and gas would be required..to weld aluminum w/ a mig welder for example, you will need aluminum wire and I think 75% or 100% argon gas. Mig's might need different stuff for ss metal, not sure tho.

What's your turbo project on? If worst came to worst, borrow a tig welder from a friend or you can get shop to weld it, headers have to be very strong and durable as you may know already..

Its on a 99 v6 mustang. Acually the flanges are mild steel so it should be good. Right now I can't decide if I need flex pipe in the path from headers to turbo. And that if I do need the ss flex section how to weld it and if I can jet hot coat it?

Do have your Flex tube in SS.

Even a 0.1% vibration reduction-and net speed-and safety- should be welcome-when you are going all out to win.

With that in mind weld the flex section ends to MS flanges with TIG of MIG-fed with SS316 wire.

At the start of next race -do it again ,if in doubt --so what is the fuss all about?

The best way would be to go in for TIG weld with a corresponding SS fillerwire , and have the procedure/welder qualification done.Contact an good welding consumable supplier near to you.

My advice is to get off of this site because there are far too many incorrect responses to this basic question. Typically type 309 is used for welding austenitic stainless steel to carbon steel, but, you're application may involve other considerations.

HI,

very interesting topic.

I need to weld 316TI S.Steel tubes with galvanised mild steel (car chassis repair)

and I'd like to know where I can find the MAGNA 303 Gold RODS for the job.

Reading thie post It seems to be the best product for the job but they are very difficoult to find.

Any help?

Many thanks

Regards

Giorgio from Italy

Hi,

MMAW electrodes , having SS312 as core wire are well suited for welding dissimilar steels and plenty of options such as 'Oerlikon Fon E-106 ', 'Eutectic 680' ,' Magna 303' are the most popularly used for such application.You may consider one of these.

TIG welding is a good option too.You may evaluate overlaying a buffer layer of SS wire (SS grade of the same as that of the SS pipe) on the MS flange. The flange may then be welded by the same SS wire using TIG welding with the SS pipe.The Consumable, Process and Welder qualification will be helpful for this application.

Any good welding consumable company in your region should be able to help you with this.

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TIG welding is a good option too.You may evaluate overlaying a buffer layer of SS wire (SS grade of the same as that of the SS pipe) on the MS flange. The flange may then be welded by the same SS wire using TIG welding with the SS pipe.The Consumable, Process and Welder qualification will be helpful for this application.>

Susui, You are only extending the Agony

The Question is not answered .

Speak out finally -- You Metaullurgists!

mm

1.MMAW with Magna 303 or similar

2.TIG welding by SS

Point is even with above two methods there are issues regarding the weldment.

Please do share ur experience that could help to close / reduce the weldment issues.

could i weld the two peace header together so i could never worry about that gasket againe....

blah blah blah. just freaking MIG it. i did and don't have any nutty professor corrosion with some fancy terminology. if its bubbly, then grind it down smooth and weld over it. geeze guys, it's freaking automotive exhaust, all you need is it to not leak cause you should not be relying on it to hold the turbo up. make a hanger for it or something.