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Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visable - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/30/2011 2:02 AM

I recently picked this truck up cheap 01 Dodge Ram 1500 318/5.2. Temp rose but never maxed, prevented from going above 210. There were 2 blown freeze plugs, severly rusted 1 was only outer ring remaining. Again replaced blown plugs, started and ran no probs mind you. Then Removed heads and took to shop each had 1 tiny crack between valves. Obtained new/refurbished rebuilt heads. Reinstalled, water still dumping into oil. Einstein didn't check condition of intake. Removed verified was warped installed replacement intake. Runs great, no visual water in oil, but small evidence of water in valve cover on left side the one you add oil to. Cant find a visual leak, as I said no visable water in oil just small amount in above mentioned area. Loosing water still, approx 1/3 of antifreeze jug when truck goes distance of 15 miles or more, intown driving has not shown visable fluid loss. There is an intermediate gurgle from behind glove box location, but no leakage on carpet or exterior. Could this all point at the heater core, or is it possible small crack to block, again maintains proper temp and is operable. Information and feedback is greatly appreciated.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#1

Re: Still losing coolant/water no leak visable

03/30/2011 5:47 AM

Crack between valves is evidence of serious overheating in the past. But anyway. Make 2 tests: a) when engine cold overnight open upper oil tap. Any white-yellowish sludge ON tap? If yes bad news, skip next test b) Temporarily install a pressure meter ~5 bar by a T-hose somewhere in your cooling system (there are small diameter hoses around so it can be done) and run tube inside so you can see it while driving. Heat up and run your engine REAL hard and watch pressure variations folowing your gas pedal. Does pressure fall after a few seconds of idling and tops near 2bars fast after pedal to the floor? If yes worse news. If a none of the two happens (which I dought) you have a shot the problem lies in hoses or radiator. Look for salt acumulation (white or coloured like your coolant) on not so visible spots of your cooling system, this will propubly require lifting it on a garage. Give some feedback on results S.M.

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#8
In reply to #1

Re: Still losing coolant/water no leak visable

03/31/2011 6:55 AM

I think you have covered it very well. Do you think ,to start with, a cooling system pressure test while engine not running( the radiator pressure tester method. Autozone/Advance will lend him a pressure tester) will be a good idea? This way he will find the leak while parked(given that he loses 1/3 of a jug in 15 miles). If he does not find any leaks that way, then he could continue with the tests you suggested.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#11
In reply to #8

Re: Still losing coolant/water no leak visable

03/31/2011 8:35 AM

My friend I've seen cracks working in mysterious ways i.e. usally open up as temp goes up (but not always) and as pedal goes down (but not always). That's why suggested gauge inside while driving. Mesuring parked possibly will reveal the leak (but guess what: not always) And given that coolant tap is actually an overpressure valve, it will forgive a small pressure build-up at idle, but the real problem will show on stressing the engine. Other than that I agree on starting simple Good luck!

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#2

Re: Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visable - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/30/2011 8:01 AM

Did you?

Flush out entire engine, heater core and radiator to remove rust/sludge. (make sure to flush in both directions).

Replace thermostat.

Replace radiator cap making sure it's the right pressure.

Replace heater and coolant hoses. Many times a hose will have a pinhole leak where the water will hit something hot and flash off, leaving no visible sign of a leak. This could be how water is getting into the oil via the oil filler cap.

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#3

Re: Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visable - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/30/2011 8:54 AM

If you are not seeing any exterior evidence of a coolant leak that only leaves one alternative, interior leaking.

I would perform a compression test on each cylinder.

I think you will find your problem.

Good Luck

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#4
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Re: Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visable - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/30/2011 9:27 AM

As an after thought - I realize that you just had the heads re-worked so you may see a compression test as an exercise in futility but in reality if your 318 was overheated to a high degree I can say with most certainty that your block is warped and the heads will not seat properly.

This will be the area(s) of coolant loss most likely into a combustion chamber.

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#5

Re: Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visable - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/30/2011 10:47 AM

To eliminate the possibility of the heater being the leak, bypass it. Use new heater hose to join the two fittings on the engine. Now have the cooling system pressure tested again. Don't forget the cap. If the test shows coolant leaking still, remove the spark plugs from a warm engine, and do the pressure test again. Continue pumping up the tester as the pressure drops. Continue with this for a half hour. Now get an assistant to crank over the engine. If water is getting into the cylinders, it will come out of the spark plug holes. If no water comes out, check the oil drain plug for water there. The first few drops will be water if it is in the pan.

Not all is bad news though. The water you see may be just small pockets of water that were not removed during the rebuild process(es) Remove the cover from a warmed up engine, and clean the cover well. allow the engine to cool before replacing the cover. Give it a couple of heat -cold cycles, and remove the cover again and look for water. If all you see is water collecting on a valve cover, it is usually just condensation. If there is truly a coolant leak, it will find its way to the oil pickup and turn to tan sludge. Good luck.

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#6

Re: Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visable - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/30/2011 2:17 PM

There are many passages inside the water jacket and sometime is often needed for consecutive warming cooling cycles for these spaces to become completely filled by pushing the air pockets out. This maybe the gurgling you hear as the air is released. Be patient.

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#7

Re: Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visable - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/31/2011 4:24 AM

Ok to elaborate today drained oil, there are signs of water in oil, like chocolate milk, with a chocolate syrup swirl, and bugs in it. (not actual bugs, trying to have some humor with this stressful situation!) Anyway there are no air bubbles or current visable in the radiator, though if running in park there is no drop in water/coolant level, it seems to dump in when in drive, also water found in oil is not same volume/amount that has been added to radiator over the past week, so in addition to figuring out how the water is getting in oil also need to solve dilemma of where unaccounted fluid is at. My 1st best educated guess is excess unaccounted for fluid is being lost through heater core, though no puddling or wet floor board but can here the gurgle from behind glove compartment are there any other thought or opinions on how water is getting into oil, any possible way that it is leaking back down a different way from heater core? Thank you again in advance for everyones knowledge, input, opinions, and Advice.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visable - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/31/2011 7:10 AM

I would ask the machine shop where you purchased the heads to pressure test them. If they find a leak they should give you a new gasket set and another head.

With the heads off use a straight edge and check for a warped block. Lay a flashlight flat on the block and check closely between the cylinders for a crack. This is more common than you might think.The machine shop may loan you theirs for a couple of hours. Also check for a warped head.

Use a piece of hose between both heater connections for a test. If this stops one problem purchase a good heater core. Their is a drain under the heater core and it would drip on the garage floor.

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#10
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Re: Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visible - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/31/2011 7:55 AM

Your lost antifreeze/water may be getting burnt in the cylinder and sent out through the exhaust. The little getting into the oil could be from bad piston rings. I say do the previously mentioned spark plug removal test and see if it is getting in the cylinders. I had that problem before with a 1980 Malibu and had to do a lot of work to fix it (new rings, heads, and gaskets).

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#14
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Re: Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visable - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/31/2011 1:27 PM

Hello Casandra27. In reading your posts you seem to be looking for 2 coolant loss problems.1.Coolant entering the oil and 2. unaccounted for coolant loss. The heater core you have been focusing on due to gurgling is easily diagnosed by climbing under the vehicle and locating the drain tube or at least the drain hole (missing tube) in the bottom of the evaporator/heater case.If this hole is plugged you will need to remove the obstruction.Note:as mentioned before,gurgling simply indicates trapped air in Core or air being introduced into the core.As mentioned earlier,pressure testing is an excellent method to discover coolant leakage.Here are a few methods which have served me well.Buy a flush tee from a parts store and install in one of the heater core hoses.Purchase the necessary plumbing to adapt the Flush Tee to a valved,regulated 15 psi.shop air line.Remove the spark plugs from the cylinders. Remove the oil pan drain plug.Make sure the cooling system is full and radiator cap installed.Slowly open the valve permitting the 15 psi. shop air to apply pressure to the cooling system.Observe the coolant recovery bottle,spark plug holes,tail pipe,under the oil pan and under the drain hole for the heater.It may be necessary to leave pressure applied for the day or even over night.It may also be necessary to occasionally crank the engine watching for coolant to be pushed out of the cylinders.Assuming you do not find a leak using this method or wish to proceed with an additional test,remove the shop air from the Flush Tee and Cap the Tee.Remove the valve covers."Be sure to remove the radiator cap".Purchase an adapter to permit you to apply 110-120-psi. shop air into the cylinders utilizing the spark plug holes.One cylinder at a time,insure that both valves are closed by observing the rockers positions and "slowly"(keep your fingers away from moving parts should the engine decide to roll) apply shop air pressure.Hissing air noise from the air intake or tailpipe is a valve leaking by.If there is a crack in the cylinder or cylinder head or head gasket you will see coolant exiting the top of the radiator as air pressure enters the cooling system. Assuming you do not see leakage it may be necessary to repeat these tests on an already warmed up engine.Hope this helps.Let me know how you are making out.

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#12

Re: Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visable - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/31/2011 8:35 AM

I would advise you to diagnose before dismantling your engine. If a head gasket is not sealing between the water jacket, and the area closest to the exhaust valve, in the block, you need to know that before you show up with a pair of heads trying for satisfaction from the people that sold you the heads. If the heads were both cracked, and the intake was warped, do you think it is possible the engine deck surface has warped? Precision machine shops will do final honing of the block with artificial heads bolted in place just to twist the block as it is when the heads are bolted on.

Harbor Freight sells an inspection tool that will allow you to look into a cylinder through the spark plug hole . Once all the parts are spread out on the bench, It may be too late to find the source of the leak. Isolate as many components as you can. Remove the heater from the circuit and pressure test.Then remove the engine from the system by plugging the radiator hoses. If the radiator alone holds, while the engine and radiator do not, you have an engine issue. But we all think you know that already. Good luck.

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#13

Re: Still Losing Coolant/Water No Leak Visable - 01 Dodge Ram 1500

03/31/2011 8:50 AM

You've got plenty of good input so far. If I was a betting man I'd put my money on a cracked cylinder. Do the cooling system pressure test with the engine as warm as you can get it and still do the test safely. The pressure will almost certainly drop. You can do 2 things to look for a cracked block or head. Check the exhaust (hopefully it's dual) if the engine is at temp and one side is blowing vapor, you have a crack. You can also run the engine with the radiator cap off and see if the water surges up and down, you have a blown head/gasket and cylinder pressure is being forced into the cooling system.

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