Wine Yeast

I always had best results dissolving the sugar first. You will know right away if the little yeasties are dead or not. Not a good move leaving them sit out for 16 hours, but chances are there are still a few live ones in there.

All it takes is a few yeasties to survive eat and reproduce to ferment your wart/soup/mash or whatever you call it. If you find a particularly good strain of yeast you can harvest off the yeast from this batch and use it for the next...

In theory, you should be able to buy yeast only one time, and keep reusing it for every batch down the road... but of course you will need to refrigerate the stuff to keep it from being active and dying off... Yeast needs to hibernate like a bear when it's not eating and reproducing, and that's done with cold temps.

I agree with RVZ717 about both dissolving the sugar first and that you should probably still have good live yeasties.

How soon are you going to start the wine? I learned to make a yeast starter. The idea is to take make a solution that is good for yeast to grown in and start the yeast in that 2 to 6 days before you'll need it for the wine. Get the yeast busy lively and reproducing before you dump it in the main batch of juice.

I'd try starting the yeast in a jar of the mix, with some extra sugar. Keep it warm-ish for about 12 hrs. Make sure to keep the bulk of the mix sealed to avoid nasties getting at it.

If the starter begins to froth, add it to the batch. If not, it's probably not viable - go driving.

Re. the sugar - I'd dissolve it in heated water first. Worked when I needed to up the OG of batches of home-brew beer.

Realize wine making's not quite the same as brewing beer - but it should work.

Good advice and I agree except for the rehydrate--I mean do the rehydrate, but do it into a starter and let the yeast build up its strength over 2 to 6 days in a starter...

Yep, growing the yeast up is a good way to go. Effectively you can grow the yeast forever if you keep them in the right "zone".

Make sure there is heaps of nutrients in the starter solution, and keep the temperature under control (13 - 16ºC) for optimum results.

And to keep them in the multiplication phase of thier life cycle, make sure there is plenty of dissolved oxygen (sparge with air or oxygen is good).

Cheers

Anthony

Re: My method is to sprinkle the yeast over water that has been warmed to 38 - 39 ºC, it will slowly dissolve into the water.

I had to think about that for a minute. 38 - 39 ºC should be OK, 40 ºC is 104 ºF so 38 -39 ºC is about 100 ºF--the point of my rambling is that you have to be careful about getting the yeast to hot, as heat will kill it.

Of course, I guess the OP already knows that. ;-)

Yep, too hot will damage the viability of the yeast. You should start with water temp at the high end of the acceptable range (35 - 39 ºC). As the process takes between 10 - 15 min to do properly, you get some heat loss from the container so the temp will drop as you're rehydrating.

As the name suggests, I've done this a sh**-load. This temp, and very clean water, and slowly acclimatising the yeast to the juice has worked well for me.

Cheers

With a name like ajwinemaker, how can anyone doubt your advice on this subject?

A GA vote from me.

Wow! Thanks everyone for the information. I surely did not expect so much so soon.

I agree with the above, make a starter yeast first. Firstly, this will tell you if the yeast is still good, and save wasting a batch of wine, and secondly it will put the yeast in the best condition for when you start the wine.

It is good to dissolve the sugar first, but even better is to make a glucose syrup by boiling the sugar in a little water with some citric acid (lemon juice works well). This inverts (or partially inverts) the sugar into glucose and fructose, the diet of choice for any discerning yeastie.

Thanks again for all of your replies. Let me make sure I have this straight before I proceed.

-For the "starter": Do I simply add yeast to water that has dissolved sugar in it, let it sit for 12-24 hours and see if it ferments, then add it to the mash? Or, do I add some of the fruit juice and pulp to the mix also?

-When I make the starter do I just save a couple of ounces of it after fermentation has started, just before adding to the mash for future use?

I like the starter recipe here, taking only four hours.

I also think a starter is probably not really necessary, as long as the yeast is fresh (check the best before date - they are pretty reliable afaik for yeast) and in a sealed foil package. The yeast in these packets is completely dormant because there is no moisture available. 75F is a warm room temperature, granted, but 16 hours at that temperature is not enough to kill a good packet of yeast. I believe the sealed packets are normally stored around 70 F ("room temperature") and come to no harm.

Simply sprinkling the yeast on the warm must is enough to get the brew going, in my experience. The four hour starter will get it going quicker, maybe a difference of half a day? Whereas a starter that takes six days, will not get it going any faster, for sure.

Whether you use a starter or not, the yeast is rehydrated either before adding or when you add it to the warm must. The real key to this, is the interpretation of "WARM" water. It's the same deal for wine yeast as it is for bread - LUKEWARM is good, NOT WARMER - you do risk killing a lot of your yeast... The water, or starting must, should be barely warm when tested against the inside of your wrist. Usually people boil the water first, to get rid of chlorine for one thing. But you have to then cool it completely, or nearly so, before you add your yeasters.

Re: Whereas a starter that takes six days, will not get it going any faster, for sure.

It depends when your juice is ready.

I should have been more clear. It's not that the starter takes 6 days to be ready, it's more that it takes 1/2 to 2 days to be ready, and stays active maybe up to 6 days.

It is better to have active yeast than dormant yeast. It is better to have more active yeast than less. By creating a starter, the yeast becomes active and starts to multiply. The more yeast you put in, the quicker you get to the very active fermentation stage.

Why not create a starter. Why not start it now, then work on getting your juice. Then, when the juice is ready dump the starter in.

I agree with you that the 75 degrees shouldn't hurt the yeast.

Yes, for sure, why not have a starter and save on yeast in the future.

But do you think that it might be at all tricky for a first timer? We are living in a world of wild yeasts, they live on our skin for example so you already have some kind of commensal yeasts to hand, as it were. If you don't have experience, motivation, and a serious brewing habit, what are the odds of cultivating and maintaining the high quality Saccharomyces yeast as a pure strain?

I remember back when I was an avid brewer and made a lot of different berry wines, one batch picked up a wild yeast and basically turned into sherry. I guess I was lucky to get something drinkable at all, and I was pretty surprised when I found out that the taste of sherry is produced by using a special yeast, so the reason for the strange results. I also found it worthwhile to use the special champagne yeasts for the best result with white wines. Although it's true, you can make some kind of wine even with bread yeasts.

Still, a fresh pouch of wine yeast is not expensive, compared with the loss of a whole batch of wine you will be tending for months. If you are brewing a lot, the risk is not so serious cw the reward, then it's worth while keeping wine yeast as a pet.

If someone can't get the yeast started properly in a starter, what makes you think they can get it started in the must?

Oh, you're worried about next year. Well, I skipped any discussion of sanitation, but you need to practice good sanitation, often using sodium bisulphite (iirc) to kill any wild yeasts (and other good stuff) in the must. Sterilizing the containers. I usually boil my starter juice and then let it cool. Keep a good stopper on it (like a thick plug of cotton while it's fermenting, and later, if it's not fermenting (at all) a tight lid. If I'm not sure fermentation is stopped, I won't fasten the lid quite that tight.

And then, the next year, when I get the starter going again, I'll smell the stuff. Champagne yeast has and especially flowery smell.

But, you don't have to use the starter to save yeast for next year, you still get your fermentation going faster this year if you get the yeast going in a starter before your must is ready.

Cleaning everything is essential. I used to use sodium metabisulphite. Smelly but effective.

Starting the yeast is a good idea to help it on it's way (and also to check that the yeast is viable).

Unless it's a very special strain, I wouldn't bother saving it for another year. Relative to the cost of a batch of brew, I'd say it's safer to get a fresh sachet every year. If any wild things got in which were stronger than the required strain, they could take over during the storage time and wreck the lot.

If you're doing several batches in the same season, multiplying the yeast in a starter and sharing it between the batches is a good scheme.

_{Aside: the wonderful thing about beer is that there isn't a season - the grain (unlike fruit) can be kept all year round, and only malted and brewed when needed.}

The starter was a success. I got all of the fruit, sugar, etc. in the primary and it's been cooking for two days now. It is percolating nicely. Thanks for all of your help.

OK........another concern. I know it is important to keep a minimal air space in the secondary fermentor, the carboy. Hopefully, when I siphon into the secondary I will have enough to completely fill the carboy. But, after further testing and performing another racking or two, how do I fill the carboy to the top? Do I fill the left over space with water?

Thanks aj.

Thanks MACA. As I said in my original post, I was afraid of the yeast having been rendered useless because I had them exposed to elevated temperatures for a while. So, I put both of the yeast packets in my starter. Too much? Anyway, I added the starter to the must and it slowly began fermenting. Using the instructions in my winemaker's handbook I racked the must from the 7 gallon bucket to my 5 gallon carboy when the must reached 1.040 SG. This may have been too soon. I'm fortunate that I left the carboy in my kitchen sink. The must soon began a very vigorous fermentation, sending froth up through the vapor lock. This continued for 2 days. Now it has settled down to a more mild fermentation and it just sending CO2 bubbles up through the water in the vapor lock about one every second.

1.040 sounds just about right and the fact that it was bubbling vigorously is a good sign. Recently I used the same yeast in two different wines, one was a batch of sloe and the other was parsnip. It was a GP (general purpose) yeast from a tub and the sloe wine went mental and frothed through the airlock while the parsnip one was very gentle and had no froth. I think that there are many factors which affect how vigorously the wine ferments.

I also don't think adding two packets of yeast was too much rather it may have just been a bit of a waste.

What was your original SG from the must? It is from this and your final gravity that you can work out your alcohol content.

Unfortunately, I didn't measure the SG when I started. I had a hydrometer squirreled away somewhere but I could't find it. I later got one from a neighbor. After about 24 hours the SG was around 1.065.

Sloe? What is sloe? I hope I'm not stepping into a henway joke.

Sloes are like little plums. Perhaps better known for making sloe gin than wine. The sloes aren't used to make the gin, but to flavour it, by infusion in gin with some sugar. Taste of sloes makes yer mouth pucker - there's usually quite a lot of sugar used in drinks to counteract it (and help extract the flavour).

Sloes in Wikipedia.

I doubt the SG would drop too much after 24 hrs. Like I said before it all depends on multiple factors so its impossible to know what the original gravity was but 1.065 isn't high and if you ferment out to dry you will probably be looking at about 9%.

You could try feeding your wine when the SG has dropped below 1.000 and if the yeast stays alive and uses this sugar then the final alcohol content will be higher. If you do this remember just to add a little sugar (solution) at a time because if the yeast dies you can do nothing to reduce the sweetness apart from watering it down and then you water down the alcohol % so you might as well not have bothered in the first place.

If you are careful then even with mistakes you will almost always get something drinkable. Some of my wines have turned out not very good but always drinkable. Practice makes perfect. Well I say that but after 6 years of making wine I made one a few months ago which was really sweet cos I was pushing the boundaries to see how much sugar I could add. Turns out the answer was a little less than I added. But I've learnt from that and it was very alcoholic

I'd just point out here that if sugar is added during fermentation the OG (original gravity) vs. final SG method can't be used 'as is' for estimating the alcohol content. It can still be done, but the weight of sugar added has to be 'put back into' the starting must and a new OG calculated.

Need to keep careful track of things to get any meaningful result (if it matters much).

Haven't checked this and it's a while since I've done any brewing, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I reckon 1 gram of sugar will raise the SG of 1 liter by 0.001, so adding 50g to a 10L batch would effectively add 0.005 to the OG.

Thanks John. I thought my "massive fermenting" was over but I was wrong. In the last 3 days I have taken off the vapor lock 3 times to clean it, along with the area surrounding the neck of the carboy. The vapor lock and the neck of the carboy were full of yellow/tan foam. It looks like things have settled down a little. I guess the yeast was still viable!