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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1

Elevator Water Removal

05/03/2011 11:47 PM

We are still trying to get the water out. State inspectors tell us that we cannot have the pump in the shaft...even tho there is plenty of room. Pump must be on the outside, recovering the water to storage containers, which will be pumped on a regular basis. There are a couple of systems out there that can handle the oil in the water . We need ideas on a suction system that will hold prime(lift is 6 ft ), with the pumping system on the outside.

Elevator is in the garage, water level is high due to the fact that it is only 1 block from the beach, There is already 2 pumps that come on on a regular basis to handle that water. My fear is that if we drill/cut into a corner to put a ketch point , we will open it up to the water that is already flowing. Only 2 inches of water ever show up, but it seems to never go away. We looked into the option of sealing the elevator shaft from the inside, but the guarantee ....left a lot of questions. We are in San Diego, Calif

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#1

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 9:30 AM

Dig a hole(s) just outside of the elevator shaft that are deeper than the shaft. Put a sump pump(s) in the hole(s), cover them with a grate or metal cover and forget about them.

With a deeper hole just outside the elevator shaft................that is where the water will go. Then it's just a matter of pumping the water out of the hole. The added benefit is, that the water will not be contaminated with oil from the elevator...................it will just be water.

Since water will always take the path of least resistance, you just need to provide it with an easier place to go than your elevator shaft.

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#2

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 10:12 AM

I think the painter has a good point. It might take more than one hole, or some pipe network on the "water" side, but this is done to help keep basements dry regularily.

Maybe you do this temporarily, to give you time to install a proper sump/pump system in the elevator shaft.

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#3

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 10:51 AM

You could always drill a hole to let it go away.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 11:14 AM

Re-read the original post. Drilling a hole will let water in, not out. He's by the ocean.

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#11
In reply to #4

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 8:19 PM

I should re-read? ok, let's do that;

"Only 2 inches of water ever show up, but it seems to never go away"

plus "oil in the water"

Scenario 1. The bottom 2" once leaked until oil saturated/sealed it. The filling is driven by a rise in water table somewhere above 2" when the capacity of the pumps is exceeded.

I.e. it fills more than observed, then drains to the now waterproofed level.

Hence my (comprehension challenged) comment.

But folks are also permitted to 'think further'.

Like; fit a one way 'flapper drain' in the hole.

Or; if the OP addresses the oil and/or surplus grease accumulation/fire hazard, it might 'unseal', so solve both problems.

Scenario 2. the existing pumps need to be '2" deeper', but I doubt it. (spelling out will cost extra)

So Lyn, do I still need to "re-read"?

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 8:32 PM

Re-read, no you should quit this thread.

You have not only imagined a condition that has never been described by the Op, you have now imagined a hole in the shaft that does not exist so that you can, "fit a one way 'flapper drain' in the hole."

There is no hole. And if the OP drills one, the water will pour in, by his own assessment.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 10:17 PM

Oh. I thought the OP said "My fear is ..."

But at least I'm not 'imagining' the OP has the depth distance and flow measurements that turn "fear" into "assessment".

I think Mark has asked a good question on code, which is pertinent to the above.

But, so far as you kicking me off;

You'd have better grounds than 'imagining' if I had suggested something specifically contrary to code covered in the OP

Like a pump in the well

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 10:25 PM

I'm growing weary of this.

Maybe the Op can glean some worthwhile advice from all the fluff you have presented.

The solution should be right there, "on the beach". His can't be the only sump that is flooded. What have his neighbors done?

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 11:24 PM

Self inflicted.

BTW it actually says "1 block from the beach" - so is that a house block or city block?

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 11:41 PM

Either way, if we believe the climate change gurus, in 50 years the elevator shaft will be the least of his concerns.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 11:21 AM

Since he's near the beach, I suspect that the shaft is actually sitting in the water table.

I wonder where the state inspectors were when the place was being built?

I'm no civil engineer, but if I was designing an elevator shaft that went below grade by the beach, I would have figured out a way to fit it with an industrial strength condom to keep it dry. Of course, my hindsight has always been 20/20.

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#6

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 11:41 AM

Why would a sump pump not be allowed in the elevator shaft?

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 12:25 PM

I'm guessing the sump pump may be considered a fire hazard.

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#8

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 1:00 PM

Hi, I guess drilling hole and injecting the water proofing material will help you out from this water leakage problem. because in my project which is little close to sea we use same solution. Also you can check with the elevator supplier, if the pit has adequate pit depth. my recommendation is to make a another layer of steel plate to prevent any water leakage and you can make that layer in a raft form and it might be useful in positioning the pump also as an additional remedial measure. I am bit confused about the source of oil in the lift pit, Is this is hydraulic lift for the oil leakage ?

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#9

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 6:04 PM

Contact some local "industrial grouting" and ask about "injection grouting" around the structure to STOP the water getting in.

There are some pretty smart materials out there to inhibit water flow.

I am currently investigating similar to inhibit water entry into damaged underground sewer pipes.

Stopping water entry could be more cost effective as it eliminates the maintenance and running costs for motors, pumps and all the rest.

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#10

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 7:58 PM

There are some really good answers here. If you must pump, a peristaltic pump is a good candidate. They come in all sizes and are very simple to maintain.

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#16

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/04/2011 11:40 PM

We used an eductor venturi when de-watering voids etc., this is going back to USN repair-party stuff.

Rain 4 Rent or Valley Irrigation should be able to set you up with dewatering equipment, eductors etc., and lift 20+ feet easily even 100 feet.

An eductor is a system comprised of a pump pushing water to a submerged fitting with a supply & discharge hose connection side by side and a strainer on the bottom, water is pumped into this fitting and through a venturi. We used a 1-1/2" hose to supply water to this fitting and it would suck 4" of trash water up through a strainer from the flooded space and move 250 gallons/per minute. With this type set-up no special equipment is required for oils because the trash doesn't pass through the pump.
http://www.pwmall.com/p-135246-np_2055hm-2-nylon-transfer-water-pump-gx200-honda-200-gpm.aspx ,

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_7286_7286


http://www.venturipumps.com/eductor.htm

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/05/2011 7:06 AM

That would work great...............I don't think it would fly in southern California though.

Water is a precious commodity and I don't think they would let him use water to suck water. There's also the oil problem. With oil in the water, everything on the discharge end would have to be contained, and knowing CA, it would probably be considered toxic waste.

With the rabid environmentalists out there, I think whatever his solution is, it's going to involve coming up with a way to completely keep the water out. Once it gets in and mixes with the oil, his removal, containment and disposal costs could get very expensive.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/05/2011 5:10 PM

Use saltwater then (: CA has quite a bit of that and oily water is used for slurry; asphalt sealing is much in demand so slurry water is not difficult to dispose that way.

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/05/2011 6:59 PM

Don't move to California.................they're not real big on things that make sense.

I could tell you the story about an old church I did in Santa Cruz. It wasn't a church anymore, it was some kind of meditation center dojo or something. They found out the paint I was scraping and sanding on the outside was lead paint. These people started crying real tears about the earth and how I was destroying it...........................I was kind of wishing I had my gun with me. Anyway, you'd be amazed.

I ended up catching the paint chips in plastic, and used them to fill pot holes in my driveway.

Fortunately, the people that were screaming and crying didn't own the building, they were renting and I was working for the owner.

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#18

Re: Elevator Water Removal

05/05/2011 3:01 AM

We had similar problem in our lift shaft. It was observed that water was seeping from our near by drainage pipe which was clogged. Please check the source of water, may be you have same problem. After cleaning the drainage pipe and waterproofing lift shaft the problem is sorted out.

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