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Variable Speed Pool Pumps

06/28/2011 9:20 PM

My wife is on my butt to replace our single speed 1HP pump with one of the newfangled variable speed energy efficient money savers. She has researched different manufacturers and we are both getting cornfuzed. She just found out about Echo Pools second electron something control. Who out there of you residential pool owners have done investigations/experience with ePumps. As of 1 Jan 2012 ePumps are mandated as the only ones that can be sold. Maybe even after 1 July this year, only they can be manufactured. Help/opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

davo in Orlando

Retired since April Fools Day

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#1

Re: Variable speed pool pumps

06/28/2011 9:53 PM

I don't know the first thing about pool pumps, but I did just put a new single speed pump on my pool. It cost about 1/2 of what the new variable speed pumps cost. At $.09USD/ kWh I don't know what the payback period is.

However, in your case, monetary payback periods are not important. Wife payback periods are far more important to you.

Get the new pump and be sure your wife approves of it.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Variable speed pool pumps

06/28/2011 10:33 PM

However, in your case, monetary payback periods are not important. Wife payback periods are far more important to you.

Always back down is what you're saying? Even if it doesn't make a lick of sense. Can't do it. Maybe that's why I'll be single 'till I die.

That's all right; I can do what I want whenever I want

The ROI for this has got to be dozens of years, if that.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Variable speed pool pumps

06/29/2011 12:27 AM

Not always.

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#4

Re: Variable Speed Pool Pumps

06/29/2011 2:27 PM

You are likely discussing two separate things, Energy Efficient Motors and Variable Speed Pumps.

It is true that new motors are now mandated to be Energy Efficient by the Dept. of Energy, that took place years ago. You can easily ask for and buy a new energy efficient motor, in fact unless you buy used or surplus, that's what you will get now.

But that is apparently not what that "ePumps" marketing term is referring to. It appears to be a VSD driven Permanent Magnet pump motor and drive combo unit. I don't think there is a specific regulation requiring VSD driven pumps, that makes absolutely no sense. But if the total efficiency of the ePump setup is greater than that of a standard single speed non-energy efficient pump motor, then it qualifies under the new EE motor application rules.

However, there is a big BUT in this idea. Using Variable Speed will save energy if you need to vary the flow and have been doing it by mechanical means, such as a valve, where there are losses across the valve. So if you have a single speed pump now, AND you have some sort of automatic control valve that changes the flow, then removing the valve and using a variable speed pump will save energy. But if you have a fixed speed pump and NO VALVE, then having a VSD will actually WASTE energy.

That ePump system seems to be promoted along with another controller of some sort, and it may add in some sort of variable speed operating sequence, but adding it just to add it is pointless. Swimming pool pumps serve 1 or 2 purposes, moving water through the filtration system and/or the heater. But the work performed is all about total VOLUME of water through the system, not the rate of flow. So slowing the flow down will do nothing more than extend the TIME it takes to move the same volume, but the amount of WORK done by the motor will be the same in my opinion. I know that there have been some people claiming that if they monitor the pressure drop across a filter, they can increase the pressure to maintain flow as the filter clogs, but this is a bogus argument from my experience. All it does is force more water through the un-clogged filter and clog the rest faster, or blow a hole in it. Better to monitor the pressure drop and CHANGE the filter if you want to save energy!

So in my opinion unless they can give you a REAL reason why variable speed will save you energy, then it's just technology for technology's sake. While their system may have better efficiency than an old motor, I would compare it against a new EE single speed motor before spending extra money on it as a retrofit system.

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#5

Re: Variable Speed Pool Pumps

06/29/2011 10:41 PM

I have never seen, in private or public swimming pools, a need for, or a use for, variable speed pumps. I can think of no justification for a variable speed pump...

Wait a minute. I just installed for a friend a solar-powered pool pump. This is definitely a "variable speed" pump- the speed depends on how bright the sun is (or the angle it makes to the collector, etc.). Fortunately, I was able to convince him to leave the old pump hooked up to compensate for the variation in speed. No word yet on his electric savings- I suspect it is much less than anticipated (i.e., he is not bragging about it)...

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#6

Re: Variable Speed Pool Pumps

06/29/2011 11:08 PM

I understand the need for variable speed pumps when dealing with pressurized water systems. Grundfos and Franklin are two of the bigger players in that field. They are based on monitoring the pressure and increasing or decreasing the speed of the pump to maintain constant pressure. The bigger the demand or flow of water the faster the pump turns. In fact they are also called constant pressure pumps. If you want to maintain pressure of say 70 psi and not have showers slow down when other taps are opened, then these are the types of pumps you should purchase for your house pressure system.

Pools are a whole different matter. As pointed out there is a need to move water to turn over the volume of the pool. Most pumps and your 1 hp pump will move water at constant pressure. The head will only vary with filter clogging and usually you will backwash before flow will become an issue. Filter back washing can also be done automatically based on the loss of flow through the filter. You see the flow loss as an increase in pressure on your filter. However these losses are very small compared to even a standard house demands with various demands (washing, showers, toilets, irrigation etc). A variable speed pump on a pool seems a big waste of time. Mandated? Why? Or is this April Fool still.

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#7

Re: Variable Speed Pool Pumps

06/30/2011 12:50 AM

While VSD's have certain benefits and sold with the benefits highlighted, they DON'T tell you of the downside. Harmonics. These little things called "Harmonics" will cost you more in the long run, unless you buy a mitigation unit, only a small thing, but they can be worth it.

I suggest that you look at your power bills before and after to see if you've saved anything with this VSD for your pool pump.

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#8

Re: Variable Speed Pool Pumps

06/30/2011 1:16 AM

The pump needs to be running throughout the day to make sure that the purification system and filtering system are getting the chance to do the job you have them for. I would not spend the money for a multi-speed pump or a variable/universal speed pump just to satisfy the need for the system. You can install a timer on the pump that will operate the system at the highest need period according to your use, and set the timer to cycle the motor on and off during the down time. Without any idea of who and how many are using your pool and when, the capacity, the filtration system, the hygiene practice, the purification system etc. I can't go any further than this. With a timer on the pump, you may save 25% of the operating cost or more, depending on the demand. For your 1 horse motor, you would save about $.65/day cutting the power to it by 50% for 12 hours of the day, assuming you run the pump 24/7 (based on your areas kwh rate of about 7 cents/kwh). if not, you need to figure the hours you do run the pump when you don't have to have it on all the time, and then calculate the savings. You don't supply enough info in your usage variable to be able to plug in some reasonable numbers, but you, or your wife, should be able to do the math from here.

If nothing else, showing your lovely wife what great effort you are putting into the calculations and mystery of voodoo economics will certainly get her off your butt and she in a better space, like the cabana?

Have fun. And don't forget to backflush the filter!

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Variable Speed Pool Pumps

06/30/2011 4:26 AM

I too thought this would be a better option, but I took it that "she who must be obeyed" had already made the OP's mind up for him.. and the no matter what the counter argument would be.. "we are having the speed controller!".. end of!

Hence my comments regarding the "before" and "after" power bill.

In a nut shell you only really save money when the thing is switched off....

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#10

Re: Variable Speed Pool Pumps

06/30/2011 4:28 AM

Replacing a pump with very little technical or economic justification is not very environmentally friendly. The energy cost to make a new pump, and the energy footprint for disposal of the old pump, will far outweigh the additional energy saved by replacing your pump before it fails.

So you can sit back and do nothing, providing that you can satisfy your wife that this course of (in)action is saving the planet.

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#11

Re: Variable Speed Pool Pumps

06/30/2011 9:07 AM

I have a two speed pool pump, and I like it because I'm gone for most of the day and I can leave it on slow speed. However, slow speed does not circulate the water like high speed does.

A little off-topic, but for those of you that do own pools, here's a suggestion. The hoses they sell for the pumps are pretty cheaply made, yet are always failing. I replaced mine with PVC pipe, and used rubber connectors with regular hose clamps so I can remove it every winter. The larger diameter and smooth bore has given me much more water flow even at the slower speed. To anyone looking to save a few pennies on electric, a two speed pump and PVC could be an ideal solution.

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