CR4 - The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®

Previous in Forum: Looking for a Hydraulic Cylinder   Next in Forum: Rotation of Turbine
Close

Comments Format:






Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







9 comments
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 15

Pipe Rack Calculation

11/03/2011 11:47 PM

Can anybody to help me to calculate the Piperack

I need Calculation procedure, other factor effected on the calculation,Formula etc...

for this I think detail information is not required

thanks in advance

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: calculation formula piperack
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Under the Major Oak
Posts: 3629
Good Answers: 143
#1

Re: Pipe rack calculation

11/04/2011 12:07 AM

Do you do any of your own homework? I've been looking at your previous posts.

__________________
Pessimists are rarely disappointed.
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ketchikan, AK, USA
Posts: 15722
Good Answers: 615
#2

Re: Pipe rack calculation

11/04/2011 12:13 AM

Not one single piece of data has been given about this pipe rack. Therefore, calculation (of what, pray tell?) is completely impossible.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 11752
Good Answers: 157
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Pipe rack calculation

11/04/2011 12:55 PM

Come give him a break......

Pipe rack calcs........uuhhhmmmm,.......looks good.

__________________
phoenix911
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#3

Re: Pipe Rack Calculation

11/04/2011 12:43 PM

banu,

The formulas you will need are:

F=ma, E=IR and E=mc^2.

All steel beams shall be W10s, all columns shall be W14s.

No other detailed information is required.

Register to Reply
3
Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - Retired Piper

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bayonet Point, Florida
Posts: 611
Good Answers: 53
#5

Re: Pipe Rack Calculation

11/04/2011 1:51 PM

Sumit Mech. Engg.

You wrote: I need Calculation procedure, other factor effected on the calculation,Formula etc. For this I think detail information is not required.

I am not sure who you are from the standpoint of engineering group (Piping, Structural or other) so it is difficult to give you any direct answer or direction. However here are two questions and answers regarding previous Pipe Rack issues. Maybe these will help or cause you to be more specific with your actual need.

Pipe Rack Design

The question:

Any competent writing about hydrostatic testing will warn that you need to be sure that your pipe supports can carry the weight of the pipe plus the test liquid. Anyone have any pictures of Pipe Rack failures?

My answer:

I doubt that you will ever get any pictures of specific "Hydro-test caused Pipe support failures".
The big companies such as the ENR (Engineering News Record) listing of the Top 500 EPC (Engineering, Procurement & Construction) companies are way too smart, well trained and experienced to make the kind of mistake your posting suggests.

In my experience we (Piping) do an indepth study of the Pipe Rack systems. We determined where all the lines will be run, how many there are, their NPS (size), the wall schedules, the weight per foot of the pipe, the weight per foot of water (Hydro-test), the Insulation, any additional concentrated loads (Valves), Platforms, etc. Piping also defined where the main Anchor points would be and where all the Expansion Loops will be located for all piping that would be subject to thermal expansion. We furnished all this related information to the Structural Department along with the requirements for the width of the racks, the number and spacing of the support elevations, and the number and spacing of the pipe supports.

The Electrical and Control Systems Engineering Groups sized and defined their cable tray and conduit needs that would be supported in the project Pipe Racks.

The Structural Department then designed and engineered the actual Pipe Supports to meet the defined needs of the project. I am sure the Structural Department also had criteria for a sizable safety factor that covered future additions, wind, snow loading, seismic etc.

All projects are different and each one has it's own specific needs or requirements but if each group does their job properly there should never be a case of Pipe Rack failure due to excess hydro-test loads or forgotten weight of Hydro-test loading.


Pipe Rack Sizing

The question:

"How do you size a pipe rack? What are the steps?"

My answer:

Pipe Rack Height - The height if a pipe rack is based on the minimum overhead clearance required under the lowest level of piping passing transverse under the rack (normally 12'-0" +/- or 4 meters). Then the vertical spacing of the North-South (N-S) and East-West (E-W) levels is determined by the largest average line size in the rack. If your largest average line size is 12" NPS (a 12" long radius Ell is 18") then, two Ells welded together results in 3'-0' center to center of pipe (also 3'-0" bottom of pipe to bottom of pipe). This means that the vertical spacing between the N-S and the E-W rack should be 3'-0". If you only require one level then you will have the original grade (ground) to lowest crossing level which may be 12'-0" plus 3'-0" to the first rack level for a total of 15'-0" For every rack level you add you must double the 3'-0" to allow for another crossing level between the normal rack levels. The final overall height of the rack is determined by the number of levels required and any other special conditions or requirements. Special conditions include mounting Air Cooled Exchangers (Fin Fans) on top of the pipe rack or the requirement to have the flare line slope to free drain to the Flare Knock-out Drum.

Pipe Rack Width - The width of any given pipe rack is best determined early in the project during the Plot Plan development activity by doing a "Piping Study" (See Piping Study included in this paper). You must have well developed P&IDs and an understanding from the structural group on the type of supports construction (i.e.: bare steel, fire proofed steel, pre-fabricated concrete, or poured in place concrete). You then take the preliminary equipment arrangement (does not need to be to scale) and allow a clear space where you know the pipe rack will be located. Then take every line from the P&ID that you know will need to run on the pipe rack and "sketch" it onto the pipe way area of the preliminary plot plan. As you go make sure you identify every line with the line number, line classification, line size and insulation if required. Do not make it detailed; keep it a very simple "stick" drawing. Do this with all lines. This drawing is also called a "Transposition" and the activity is called doing a "transposition." Once you have completed the transposition and all the lines shown then you can find the most congested point of the pipe rack. Study the most congested point to determine the most appropriate line sequence.

By this I mean which lines need to be on the east side of the rack, which lines need to be on the west side of the rack and where the other lines should be? Next you need to calculate the spacing between each two lines individually. To do this you take one half the diameter of the flange of the largest of each two lines + one half the outside diameter of the other pipe + the thickness of any insulation on the smaller line if any + 1" spacing. Do this for all pipes in the congested part of the transposition. Now add the line spacing for a raw total. To the raw total you should add 30% for lines that may be added during Design Development. You should also ask the client how much "Future" rack space is wanted (normally 10%) for the finished plant. The raw total plus the 30% plus the 10% may give you a number that is acceptable for a one level rack. However you may find it is more likely that you will need two or more main levels. Work with the numbers, considering the overall space available, the span of the proposed rack and the loading to be placed on the span.

Line Spacing - Line spacing is Rule is (a) one half the diameter of the flange of the largest of each two lines +(b) one half the outside diameter of the other or smaller pipe + (c) the thickness of any insulation on the smaller line if any + (d)1" spacing. It is also important to recognize there are exceptions to this rule. The exception applies when the smaller line is one of the higher flange ratings (Class 900, 1500 or 2500) and the larger line is one of the lower flange ratings (Class 150 or 300).

I hope you have taken the time to read this. If so then you might have more specific questions that people here can help you answer.

__________________
Do it once and do it right
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: neighbor of the best country in the world
Posts: 60
Good Answers: 2
#6

Re: Pipe Rack Calculation

11/04/2011 3:15 PM

Dear sumit mechengg

Greeting to you

here you are calculations of selection of pipe rack beam. in this small example show how you can select the lateral beam of pipe support.

you must increase on these calculations calculations of longitudinal beam and calculations of welds

__________________
enlightenment is blessing and self-denial is a good recipe
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA, Florida
Posts: 1192
Good Answers: 107
#7

Re: Pipe Rack Calculation

11/05/2011 12:10 AM

I can't believe anyone would give you a serious answer to your post.

Can you do a vector calculation? Do you know what a load is? Can you read a data sheet on the load capacity of a structural member? Can you imagine what a safety factor might be?

This is either homework (hopefully) or a disaster on the horizon.

__________________
An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal.
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 15
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Pipe Rack Calculation

11/10/2011 8:28 PM

VJMFIRE

If you are not able to give the answer then don't demoralize the other

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Member

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8
#8

Re: Pipe Rack Calculation

11/06/2011 11:13 AM

I am a lic contractor metal-Fab D-24 and a D-28 iron powergates what are you trying to do with this rack ?

Is it for a truck or ?

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 9 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); blackpanic73 (1); jiffy81 (1); PennPiper (1); phoenix911 (1); sumit_mechengg (1); TonyS (1); Tornado (1); WJMFIRE (1)

Previous in Forum: Looking for a Hydraulic Cylinder   Next in Forum: Rotation of Turbine

Advertisement