Snake Problem

Get some mongooses.

The Caribbean island of Antigua has no snakes because European settlers brought the mongoose there many years back. These ravenous little ferrets have now moved onto many larger prey including Del's namesake. Introducing a non-native species often lead to unintended consequences.

Hawaii was plagued with Rats that arrived courtesy of the Sailing ships. In an attempt to rid the islands of rats, they imported the Mongoose.

It took a while before someone noticed that the rats were still around, but there was a huge population of Mongoos(es).

Rats are nocturnal and the Mongoose prefers daytime.

Plan ahead people......

Er, shouldn't it be mongeese!

Sort of like the plural of spouse should be spice

Mongooses, as awkward a word as it is, is acceptable. Besides, I read it on Wiki and I know everything there is 100% correct.

And Ozzb is right -- copperheads and timber rattlers are the only poisonous snakes in PA. If water moccasins are making an incursion, someone had better let me know.

Moccasins are the only snakes I've ever seen that will come at you, as opposed to moving away.

And what's happened to the OP? I hope he hasn't been.............

Anaconda?

you're right. i stand corrected

Mongoose is not an English word and so the pluralisation does not follow English rules

I know! Do engineers, not have a sense of humor? Sheesh!

Reading in a hurry and didn't spot the second line or the poster....I have the browser at about 1/4 of screen height. Thought poster might be non-native English speaker and I was trying to be helpful...

Those are my excuses and I'm sticking to them!

Borrow the Jersey Devil!

Passington, is it time to do a trip to the NJ Pine Barrens? LOL But, how to snare the Jersey Devil?

These people might know. Nice to have a hobby, isn't it?

The Pine Barrens are great for camping and canoeing.

Thanks for the link Sue! Frankly, I think those folks have too much time on their hands to go "Devil Hunting"..... LOL

Doesn't mean that I don't think it exists or does not exist....I'm sitting on the fence about this one. A lot of sightings, yes, which could mean almost anything could be living in the Barrens. There's a lot of unexplored acreage there and many very large swamplands.

Even my kid brother is a "Jersey Devil"! LOL Really, he's a Retired (Lt. Colonel) fighter pilot who once flew with the New Jersey Air National Guard (the 177th Tactical Fighter Wing "The Jeresy Devils" based at Atlantic City IAP).

Seems every region claims a critter.

I wish all the Sasquatches and Devils and Bigfootses would come out of hiding already. But, I blither off-topic...

Yeah Squatches appear to be in nearly every state that has a good amount of heavy forested lands and swamps...

As I have stated before in another blog a friend and I hear one in the Adirondacks many years ago..... a very loud primate growl several times, followed by several very close "tree knocks" much like striking a tree with a ash baseball bat! No way was it coyotes, fox, bear, lynx, or bobcat. Only one explanation in my mind, and that it was a Squatch. There's been sighting of them since the very early Clonial times in this state and adjoining states. I was raised a "woodsman" since I was 4, and began accompanying my dad, uncles and cousin deer hunting since I was 6 and old enough to carry a .306 hunting rifle. I know my woods critter noises and what makes what sounds.

Sue, thanks for the link to the PA Bigfoot website......some very interesting pics of very large foot prints in the soil and snow........plus those photos of deer kills.

I've come across on a least 4 deer kills while hunting that were IMO not the result of dogs, bears or coyotes, and cannot be the result of humans. All had their back legs broken, twisted and nearly ripped off. Also, much of the meat was ripped off the bones. No teeth marks to indicate that dogs or natural predators did it. One of the deer kills was hanging in the Y of two tree trunks, much like the pics in that Bigfoot website. Very un-nerving to be alone (separated from other hunting party members) and come across something like that in the deep woods.....it was quite grotesque. Let's say I got back together with the others of our party very quickly, as well as "locked and loaded" the rifle tout suite!

I've heard of the same types of experiences from other well seasoned hunters that I know. Most belong to the Rod And Gun club that I belong to, and most have been hunting for decades. I know of 3 gentlemen in the club that will not venture forth alone in the woods to hunt anymore after coming across such deer kills. They're scared, very scared. So am I...I gave up hunting after what I ran into in the woods.

We even had a Bigfoot sighting here several years ago in nearby Rhinebeck NY. It's on the BFOR website. Even the "Hunting for Bigfoot" TV crew (see the Animal Planet channel on cable TV) came here last fall and interviewed the young man who saw it. That sighting was about 3 miles from my house! ACKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!

Also, across the Hudson River from me is where the only purported baby Bigfoot video footage was taken in the late 90's.

Like I said before, if you venture forth into the woods alone or with a small group of peeps, be afraid very afraid, and carry a high powered hunting rifle to save your skin (SOS)....

A quick Web search doesn't show much, but most sites advise keeping vegetation well mowed, which you've already done. The few Web sites I perused recommend putting up a rattlesnake-proof fence, but it sounds like you have a fair-sized piece of property, so this may not be cost-effective for you.

How big of a snake problem do you have?

Won't the moths object?

What if cats were imported? The cats could eat the snakes, the dogs could eat the cats. WOW! A new eco system created! No chemicals, no weapons, a definite success in today's mode of thought.

Seriously;

What about one of those high frequency pest repellent devices? Battery powered recharged by solar panel? I've never used one but know people who say they are using them with success on their property.

One more point to consider; Most "timber" rattlers are very territorial, will not retreat, and will aggressively attack if you are encroaching their area. VERY INTIMIDATING IF YOU HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED THIS PHENOMONON IN THE WILD AND ONE YOU WILL NOT SOON FORGET.

catskiller i really hate catskillers

Sorry to disappoint you but I happen to be an animal lover with several pets (cats included) and would never consider putting any pet "at risk" much less killing one.

The reference to creating a new eco system was a joke playing on just how far out of touch with reality human beings (especially in the USA) are and how riduculous some of our solutions are to simple problems.

In a "knee-jerk" reaction to many problems we humans do not look at the long term solution and instead create a far worse situation than the original. (human nature)

For me the answer is simple: When you're off the beaten path and in the outback (wild) you are in the animal's world and need to learn to live with or deal with the risk and if you don't want to do that, stay in the city. I was raised on a small ranch on the continental divide in New Mexico and have spent a great deal of time over the last 50 years backpacking, camping, and rounding up cattle in several states (West & East), and to date have never been bitten by a poisonous snake despite several close encounters. Your cat or dog will alert you to the presence of the snake if you are paying attention. What you do after that is a decision you must live with for the rest of your life so my advice is to think fast and react slow. (or fast if the situation requires it.)

im russian and from my side its also was joke i never ever thought u right catsciller

I thought you were saying SHOCKISCAN came from here...

Water Moccasins in Pennsylvania?

I thought that sounded a little too far north for moccasins, but didn't do any checking.

Their range is as far north as Virginia, copperheads and timber rattlers are the only poisonous snakes of Pa.

Hey maybe it climate change or global warming got them moving north.

I've actually have seen Water Moccasins in southeast PA at my former Brother-In-Law's house 14 years ago. Avondale PA to be precise, just over the Delaware-PA border from Wilmington. It's the mushroom growing capital of PA. The place literally stinks to high heaven!

Anyhow, his property with old growth forest had a creek running though it year round. Mike always warned us of the snakes whenever we came to visit. Our 3 small kids were never allowed to play in the backyard, ever. While we were visiting he was out mowing the backyard one afternoon he came across a Water Moccasin sunning itself on a old tree stump down near the creek. He promptly pulled out his Beretta 9mm pistol and (he always carried a holstered pistol while mowing that particular piece of his property) emptied the clip and killed the snake.....it took a least 5 rounds to kill that f-ing damn thing and was around 30-inches long, and fat...apparently well feed too, w/ lots of Wood rats and mice and Chipmunks around the area. Later that day he brought it into the PA environmental protection dept. office nearby and gave it to them as proof that Water Mocs had indeed migrated into SE PA, which they always had previously denied was possible.

Yup, there are Water Mocs in PA!

I hate snakes! While in the Army (and later Reserves), on manuveurs or Annual Training, I and the Senior NCO's always carried sidearms with live ammo to shoot dangerous snakes and gators as a means to protect ourselves and the troops in a patrol. Usually we were up to our eyeballs in swamp water and crrek/river water conducting patrols, so we were always running into critters. You always found them swimming about at bases such as Fort Polk LA, Ft. Benning GA, Ft. Stewart GA, Ft. Bragg, and yes, even at Indian Water Gap Military Reservation in PA! I've shot many a snake in my day with either a M1911A1 .45 ACP or a M9 9mm......rattlers, Copperheads, and Water Mocs.

Did I say I hated snakes? That an understatement!

Where is the fun with a 9mm? He should have caught it Turtle Man style.

I think your brother-in-laws more then likely mistaken. DEP doesn't have the expertise to handled snake IDs that would be PA fish and boat, and if he would have went to them he would have been facing a pretty stiff fine for killing it. I've lived all over PA for the past 40+ years. I've done close to 1000 wetland delineations all over north and southeastern half of PA copperheads, rattle snakes, water snakes(brown and black phased), etc, yes; water mocosain no. I've have seen plenty in SC, GA, FL, and AL, but that doesn't mean it not possible. One sighting still doesn't mean they've moved there, there are plenty of of crazy people out there that keep them as pets. It could have been released or it did a prison break.

Hey John, my Bro-in-law is an experienced and avid outdoorsman, fisherman, and hunter, who has lived in the deep south. He knows his snakes. I know mine too as I was an Army Brat growing up on southern bases 1/2 my life until I was 18.....then I was in the Army, stationed mostly down south (Ft. Polk LA, Ft. Gordon GA, Ft. Benning GA, FT. Stewart GA, Ft. Bragg NC, and Ft. Meade VA). I too know my snakes and am an avid outdoorsman and hunter.

This was a Water Moc. if there ever was one. We both saw it, and he killed it right before my eyes. IMO, the PA DEP are a bunch of flaming idiots who wouldn't know a Moc if they stumbled across one. Nope, they didn't fine him at all. In fact they know him quite well in that area, as he's one of the most primo hunting and fishing guides in eastern PA.

Yes, it is possible one escaped from some idiot reptile collector as you have suggested......most likely that is the most probable reason why it was in PA in the first place. I guess we'll never know the real reason, 'cause that snake ain't speaking! LOL

I don't know you or you brother-in-laws supposed expertize, but being an amateur hepatologist, hunting, fisherman, and having worked in their terriorty and throughout Eastern PA for over 30 years I can pretty much say it's not native to the area and I'm can almost guarrentee I can get several other experterts in the area to back it up.

Being a guide your brother-n-law should have known not to bring it to PADEP for IDing, or maybe he did know it was the wrong place to bring it?

Why didn't he bring it to PAFBC after all you said he was a fishing guide he should know which agency would handle it?

The only DEP office in the SE region is Norristown, and more then likely they wouldn't know what type of snake it was since PA DEP only handles air, waste and water quality issues. Closest office you and your brother-n-law might have went to was DCNR (foresty and parks) or PAFBC (fish and boat commistion). DEP would not and could not fine you since they don't handle it but PAFBC could if they felt like it under their regulations for the protection of reptiles and amphibains and the protection of threaten and endangered species should have issued a fine.

Good friend of mine killed a timber rattler in Berks County along the SR78 corridor found it on his property near a barn of his PAFB fines him $37,000 for killing it.

Another issue would been US Fish and Wildlife since they are not normal found here they could listed them as endangered/threaten and your brother in law could have been brought on charges of harasment under the endanger species act.

Your fellow brother's in the ACOE in Philly or Baltimore could have told you that. Since I've worked many years with both office getting 404 permits dealing with similar issues.

Genuine question:

If the species is non-native why would anyone be fined under endangered species rules? Surely preventing introduction of alien species would be considered a good thing?

Under the state law any reptile or amphibian is protected to a point. Birds have similar laws song birds are also protected including such birds as cowbirds which are parasitic to other song birds and have damaged the members of the thrush family.

Kramarat is right, mothballs(naphthalene) will do a lot keeping them away.

However it is considered poison and used as such. I had almost a snake a day after my Martin colony two years ago in April, mothballs in "kitty litter" stopped all pole climbing. The kitty liter by itself does a fair job, it seems the snakes can't stand the stuff under their scales, so you might start with that in a perimeter you wish to secure.

Put yourself an olive stick behind the ear, Like a pencil, Snakes are superstitious and will not approach. Behind the dog's ear also

How about some owl decoys placed around the yard?

Personally, I prefer snakes to rats. Since snakes have very good hearing, I would look into using sound to keep them out of your area. Just don't make sounds that the snakes may think are prey.

The mothballs may be the best idea. Snakes have good sense of smell, too.

I would say the best solution is to keep vegetation around the house low and a shotgun nearby. That's what I do in Ms. where we have a lot of water mocassins and ratlers. Usually they don't bother me, so I don't bother them. During times of drought, they are more of a problem.

According to the Australian Venom Research Unit(http://www.avru.org/general/general_mostvenom.html), the top 11 most venomous snakes in the world inhabit this country. May I suggest getting your 'steve irwin' on, buying a bag of concrete and hardening up. I grew up in and continually go hunting and camping in remote far north Queensland, and have not been bitten by a snake yet (touchwood), nor do I know of anyone who has.

Vigilance is the defining factor between being bitten by a snake, and seeing it before it has a chance. Rattle snakes have a rattle to say "hey im here, and im pissed, take a step back please".

Failing my intial recommendation, you could possibly get some anti-venom off the black market, and buy yourself a shotgun (i hear it's quite easy over there).

According to Wikipedia: the absolute truth I know (insert sarcasm here), once bitten by a rattlesnake, you have somewhere between 6 and 48 hrs before your lights get turned off indefinately. This should be ample time to get to a hospital, and fix yourself (or your dog) up.

Another course of action which I would say is an absolute must, is becoming absolutley familiar with what to do, if unfortunately, you do get bitten by a snake. Whatever you do, dont run around hysterically, "Pressure immobilization" is the key here, the less you move, the less and more slowly the toxin is going to spread through your lymphatic system. Lastly, if you dont conclusively know what type of snake bit you, be sure to not wash or wipe the bitten area, as a medical physician will need to do a test to ensure they are giving you the correct antivenom.

Snakes are just trying to make a living to. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail. Now go forth into the woods with confidence and vigour.......Good luck.

Now print that off and give it to the dog.

Dogs know what's up, but if they don't......then Darwins survival off the fittest will come into effect.......and you will get a new dog. If your that worried, you could always get one of these:

Hogs - pigs - Minature pigs best snake killers you can find - they kill em eat em. No snake problem!

Since St.Patty's day is about on us, look up a bit of Irish lore, and follow the instructions--If not, get a couple of good donkeys, or miniature donkeys, and you will have no problems, other than the need of a bunch of hay, apples, and some carrots--

OK, you've got me - what/how do Donkey's help? Do they trample snakes?

Snakes do not have a chance with equines--Their hooves take them out in an instant--Same with wild dogs, coyotes etc.--

Oh, those dogs! I use a Ruger MKII W/ 2-10X scope for culling snakes where I live.

They make this stuff that you can buy to repel snakes. I don't know how well it works. But the smell takes years to go away. And it's like $100 a gallon. FWIW, the gardner snake on the left was an awful mistake made by the people I live with. They mistook her for a rattler and ran her over. She was pregnant :( :( Gardner snakes are mean but they keep the rattlers away (They eat them) and they are perfectly harmless. It's a win win. Woke up one day and one was in my kitchen. Opened the door and let him out. Wished him well :)

P.S. never use salt for tanning the skins. What to use? Why, antifreeze my friend. They will come out perfectly thin and paper like, perfect for mounting. The meat is very bony, but I never have trouble finding people who want it.

If you aren't worried about the skin, a .410 single shot shotgun (Under $100) does excellent work. If you kill enough of them during the summer they have a hard time coming back next year. Trust me, I'd rather have more here. Skins and meat = money.

P.S. if you want to skin them then be careful and do not try to skin the head. The head is so difficult to do. I have been poked by their fangs before (But no venom) and for what-unless you've been a taxidermist for 50 years it won't even look good anyway. IMO anyway.

P.S.S. Don't let the city slickers or liars who say they've owned a 500,000 acre ranch tell you it's OK to have them around. I have had them right outside my door. The evil ones do not rattle. I have kids here sometimes and I am NOT going to let a snake hurt them, me, or my dog. That being said, I never met a rattler that really wanted to hurt me. The opposite, I could have been bit but they did not. I killed them anyway. Felt bad about it. Still. This is the way of the wilderness.

Get that shotgun no matter what you do. You can use it for home defense if you have to and for other wildlife, etc. A shotgun is one of the most useful tools you can own. A 12 Ga is a handful if you can handle it (I can) and if not then there is the 14 Ga, and finally the .410 Ga which doesn't pack hardly any recoil but are wicked effective anyway. A single shot is very inexpensive and all you need if a 12 Ga is too much. But I like my .22, it keeps the skins nice.

All good suggestions in previous comments. Mongoose is an arch enemy of snakes but keeping them near your settlement is a tough task, because the wander a lot. Keeping vegitation low is the best solution. Next is nepthalene balls. There is some special pestiside in the form of grannules (name couldn't recollect) available in India which has very strong smell. If it sprinkled near the fence, it keeps snakes at bay for a week because they are sensitive to that smell.

There is a plant which looks like a bush made of drumsticks. If it is planted near all corners of the fence, it is believed that snake woulnn't enter, because they are superstitious in nature (as Whitephone also observed at #12). Hanging dolls of large birds near the boundry may also help as snakes are their pray.

There are plenty of electronic snake repellers about. A quick Google on "snake repeller" will get you hundreds of hits like this one:

http://www.stop-snakes.com/

As this method does not harm the snakes, it could be a win/win :)|

Mark Bingham
Relativity PL

We have have them too in the backyard. Cobras actually. Unfortunately, my wife and I do not mind them so they do not act as spouse repellents. Because of heavy building activity around we do not see them much these days. Incidentally, the field rat population also decreased, which may be why the snakes went away.

Rodent control may be an option.

I know a guy who got rid of his dandelion problem by developing a taste for them. Now he can't find enough.

Google some recipes and have at it.

Could anyone tell me if there is any truth in that a rope around the area will
keep snakes away? I read it when a young lad, never had occassion to test it.

Simply, when sleeping out on the ground, circling the area with a rope can prevent
snakes approaching you. The theory being they do not like sliding over a rope?

An old indian trick? (old wives tale?) but, this has always stuck in my memory
since a lad, and I wonder if any of you "old Indians" know it to be true, or not?

If it is true, then could maybe the answer to your snake problem?

jt.

Just got back from the hospital. They reckon I might have pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis ...

but at the moment, it's hard to say....

it's makes sense to me. any type of rope in particular? hemp rope is abrasive and makes me itch.

Many snakes are protected by law and you might have to pay a big fine for killing the wrong one.

Promise. I won't tell. (no fines on rattlers, or water mocasins either for that matter)

It's International Women's Day and you talk about "the wife". Even Google are celebrating....

Anyone seen any New Men around here???

Lest you think we totally forgot you lady engineers on Int'l Women's Day,

Thank you.

My favourite colour!

Thank you!

Wild boar or even feral pigs will convert your snakes into bacon.

Yeah. When they run out of snakes they make good rototillers too.

There's a product called Liquid Fence. Its non-toxic and biodegradeable, and mostly contains some sort of garlic extract, which snakes apparently hate. If you've ever seen the US show "Billy the Exterminator", is what he uses (or at least a simelar product) for mitigating snakes without harming wildlife or pets.

http://www.liquidfence.com/snake-combo.html

Of all the answers posted, I like this one best. The chickens will pester the snakes, and reproduce with minimal assistance. A little feed now and then would not hurt, but the feral chickens here (lots of them, they are everywhere!) seem to do fine on their own. Even if you have to re-introduce them now and then, they are cheap. If they overpopulate, have a bar-be-que. Eggs, too, you can't lose.

In the old days, down on the farm, having a couple of feral cats about was a pretty common method of controlling snakes. It seems effective here in the Tropics, as well. I think it has more to do with competition for food than any battle between cats and snakes, but most cats seem capable of dealing with a snake encounter (except in one case, where a very, very large boa constrictor got the drop on a particular cat that apparently didn't know any better). Apparently, most human females are more receptive to an encounter with cats than an encounter with snakes, and cats are easier to come by than mongooses(geese). Keeps the rodent population down, but may have a negative impact on the bird population as well...

Back in my sailing days, I had a cat aboard- never saw a snake on the boat...

i'ld rather have a yard full of snakes than having one cat. seriously though, i may see a dozen water snakes in a 300 foot area along the river. i'm sure i'll trip over one some day.

.22cal revolver with "pepper shot" works great on snakes.

We always noticed few snakes around our property as long as we had cats. But, like kramarat says, some "brands" may be more aggressive.

Prevention is much better than cure, but in the event the worst happens, you should at least know about Vitamin C as a possible treatment. A pro view is here, while a con view is here. I don't think either is lying or has an agenda. So your mileage may vary, as they say. The con article never mentions dosages that I can see, so it's hard to compare with the pro link. I have not seen any experience with Lypo-Spheric (or liposomal form) in animal use, but it seems to be very effective with some viruses in humans. And one of the major proponents of Vitamin C, Dr. Thomas Levy, does refer to Vitamin C as a "universal" venom antidote in talks. He has a website and generally answers emails, though it may take some time. I did find one link to another forum discussion about Vitamin C in general for "pets." It also contains links to some published articles.

(I realize much of this is repetitive. I actually, don't like repeatedly mentioning this, as I have done it in other threads, but I also believe, based on past experience, that a lot of people don't bother to search CR4 for previous discussions -- and would almost certainly not search CR4 for info. on Vitamin C. Vitamin C is still controversial; mostly due to form and dosage administration. A confirmation of why is indicated in this article. Also search for info. about the work of Dr. Frederick Klenner.)

This may help. It shows the moccasins range. http://srelherp.uga.edu/snakes/agkpis.htm

I've known that GARLIC cloves are effective snake repellants. Garlic is known to

weaken down snakes when they sense its presence.

i have discovered several solutions , or they seem to be, but i did'nt mention them so as to get unbiosed advise.

i have a large pond at my residence and i had a bad snake problem at one time. i bought a peacock that i let roam free. it spent all day walking the edge of the pond looking for and killing snakes. by the way, they make great pets. they behave more like a dog than a bird.

the other thing that seemed to work was when i set up an ornamental windmill on the lid of my cistern. it was out of balance and vibrated badly. the cistern was always a hot spot for snakes, especially in the fall. that was fifteen years ago and i have'nt seen a snake anywhere near the cistern since then. they don't seem to tolerate viberations traveling through the ground.

it sounds like a million dollar idea if someone wants to market it.

I live on a plot near Pretoria South Africa and we used to keep turkeys. Excellent snake killers. One time they attack a very big Mosambique spitting cobra. It got one in the eye with its spit. We poured some milk on the eye and the next day the eye was much less swollen. Needless to say they killed the big snake.

Did you try garlic ??

If you grind some garlic and mix it with water and sprinkle the area...

It might just do the trick... Snakes don't like their smell...