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13 comments
Anonymous Poster #1

Motor Runs in Star/Delta

03/17/2012 7:58 AM

Sir,

Supose 5.5 KW motor connected in star for some application and runs 24hrs.

Same motor same application connected in delta and runs 24hrs.

What happens/changes in KW, Current, RPM, voltage Etc.

Pls answer.

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#1

Re: Motor Runs in Star/ Delta

03/17/2012 10:35 AM
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#2

Re: Motor Runs in Star/ Delta

03/17/2012 1:57 PM
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#3

Re: Motor Runs in Star/ Delta

03/18/2012 12:28 AM

You cannot ask this question without defining the load.

If the load is such that the motor was sized to operate it when running in Delta, then running it in Star will result in the motor being severely overloaded, it will stall and hopefully a protective device will operate to disconnect it before it catches on fire. In either case it will cease to perform the work it was expected to perform and the application is a failure.

If the connected load was 1/3 (33%) of the designed power capacity of the motor, AND IT WILL NEVER INCREASE BEYOND THAT VALUE, then running it in Star will be sufficient to maintain the work being performed and the motor iron losses will be ever so slightly less than if it had been run in Delta, so you will consume a tiny bit less energy. The LOSSES in a motor can be divided into 4 main categories:

  1. Iron losses, those that are associted with magnetizing the stator and rotor cores,
  2. Resistance losses; those associted with resistance of the winding conductors;
  3. Mechanical losses, those associted with issues like bearing frictuion and cooling fan windage; and finally
  4. Stray losses, whatever remains, typically those associted with eddy currents in the steel, minor current imbalances etc.

Of those, the only one that is affected by the applied voltage are the iron losses. The iron losses comprise roughly 15% of the total losses, reducing the voltage can reduce those losses by maybe 5%. But keep it in perspective. That is 5% of the LOSSES, not 5% of the motor energy. If a motor has a rated efficiency of 90%, then 10% is losses. Of the 10% that are losses, 95% is not going to be affected by voltage reduction. So what you can have an affect on is 5% of 10% , which is only 0.05% of the power consumed.

So let's take an example. Say you have a 15kW motor that is 90% efficient and it is connected to load that only requires 5kW to operate with the desired effect (work performed). Connected in Delta, the 15kW motor uses the 5kW of the load, plus another 0.5kW in losses for a total absorbed power of 5.5kW from the power source. If you connect that in Star, the load still takes 5kW, but now the losses are lower by 0.05% or 0.4975kW so the absorbed power is 5.4975kW. You have saved 2.5W of energy. Hard to get excited by that and for that savings, you are risking that your application will stall and fail if the load ever changes.

But if the motor permanently only needs to deliver 33% of its rated power, then someone selected the wrong motor for the task in the first place.

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#9
In reply to #3

Re: Motor Runs in Star/ Delta

03/20/2012 4:13 AM

Dear JRaef:In star mode,the phase currents are more than that in delta by a factor of 1.73.So whatever gained in reduced iron loss might get compesated by increased copper loss.So net gain might be zero.Correct me if I am wrong.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Motor Runs in Star/ Delta

03/20/2012 1:19 PM

"...In star mode, the phase currents are more than that in delta by a factor of 1.73...."

No. That is incorrect in motor applications. Current follows torque in a motor. Torque follows voltage. Reducing the voltage reduces the torque by the square of the voltage reduction. Reducing the torque CAN cause the motor current to increase because with less torque, slip will increase. But if the LOAD on the motor is reduced as well, the slip may not in fact increase and the motor will run just fine.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Motor Runs in Star/ Delta

03/21/2012 4:14 AM

Yea, thats right if the load on the motor is reduced as well.If the load is constant, what I said may be correct.

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#4

Re: Motor Runs in Star/ Delta

03/18/2012 2:33 AM

Home work?

Warning: CR4 does not do homework?

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Motor Runs in Star/ Delta

03/18/2012 4:00 AM

You're probably right, and I'm usually more careful than that.

But I also see a lot of people getting pulled in by a scam that sells Star-Delta starters as "energy savers", especially in countries where there are high numbers of desperate people for whom electricity costs are a very high portion of budgets and clutching at straws in looking for solutions. I think it's a shame that scammers try to convince people to do this and I like to rail against it when I can. This Anonymous Poster may have been a legitimately inquisitive user who had been approached by someone pushing this scam and was reaching out for corraboration. I guess I wanted it to be that rather than homework.

But it's more likely you're instincts are correct.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Motor Runs in Star/ Delta

03/18/2012 6:05 AM

JRaef, didn't know about the scam.. but it had to come I guess.

It's a pity the OP did not give more details, could be he/her english is not up to long questions/statements. Hopefully the OP might get back and shed a bit more light on the subject.

The latest scam here and its growing.... "unlimited international roaming calls!" And its spreading.. so you heard it here first!

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Motor Runs in Star/ Delta

03/19/2012 11:14 AM

Thank you for your original post. I have worked in broadcasting for 35+ years. Over 15 of those years have been at universities. I do understand and applaud the policy of not doing homework for students. Every college and university that I have seen has student tutoring and resource centers that are paid for by the student's class fees and tuition. These are the resources that they should be using. Students should be beating down the door of the resource center demanding the help that they have already paid for. They should be knocking on their professor's door too. Professors all have office hours that are posted and most will arrange appointments at other hours if needed. That the students don't avail themselves of the available resources is their loss (and fault).

However, learning doesn't stop upon graduation. One of the reasons that I enjoy CR4 is that I frequently learn things from the discussions in the fields that I have had limited exposure to. I have had some exposure to 3 phase power, but not a lot. I learned something from your post. Thank you for taking the time to post your explanation.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Motor Runs in Star/ Delta

03/19/2012 11:42 PM

"Students should be beating down the door of the resource center demanding the help that they have already paid for. They should be knocking on their professor's door too. Professors all have office hours that are posted and most will arrange appointments at other hours if needed. That the students don't avail themselves of the available resources is their loss (and fault)."

There's the problem, it actually takes them GETTING UP AND GOING SOMEWHERE, as opposed to clicking on a website while they sit on their butts and listen to their iTunes. My daugther graduated last year (thank God) and has just entered her Master's Degree program. But while she was attending her undergraduate program, I witnessed her roomates doing that exact thing. Sitting around eating pizza, listening to music and surfing websites to get answers to their questions. I told my daughter that getting on her bike to go to avail herself of the student resources was killing two birds with one stone; making the best use of her time and getting the exercise she needed. So I told her that her internet connection was only via her iPhone tethering option where the data transmission volume was finite evey month (2GB), so use it wisely. Worked great.

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#12

Re: Motor Runs in Star/Delta

03/22/2012 7:07 PM

If the motor runs OK for 24hours I assume the load is within its capability, of course.

If it runs OK in both Star and Delta configuration then the supply is matched to Delta, connected in Star the supply voltage is 1/√3 of nameplate e.g. 400V on 690V connection.

In this mode the rated power is this ratio squared so (1/√3)² = 1/3, so your load is less than 33% of nameplate power for the motor to be OK.

The slip curve flattens in Star connection so the motor runs slower which means the load is running slower which normally means power is lower too.

So, in Star, kW is similar (maybe slightly lower as explained), current is probably lower, RPM is slightly lower but similar, voltage is same(??), cos phi is improved, efficiency marginally improved.

The danger of this mode is that if there is a small increase in load, this can easily lead to an overload condition, the slip increases, pf and efficiency drop, current rises but maybe not so significantly and you can potentially and easily overheat the motor without noticing if not thermally protected by thermistors etc.

Hope this answers your query OK

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#13

Re: Motor Runs in Star/Delta

03/30/2012 10:16 AM

KW (Power) are the same since both motor are rated at 5.5KW no matters if you connect it in Delta or Star connection. Make no differences

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