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AC-Stuck Rings

04/13/2012 7:33 PM

i just bought an old camping trailer that looked like it had'nt been used in years. i think the rings are siezed in the ac compressor. is it possible to reverse the motor on a 110v unit? would installing a larger starting capacitor help?

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#1

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/13/2012 7:40 PM

Yes.

There are diagrams and such. Does the motor have a nameplate?

How is this going to un-stick the rings?

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#2

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/13/2012 10:37 PM

If its a sealed unit it probably junk.

Air conditioning systems are sealed systems so if the compressor gave out their is a reason why and most likely the whole system is contaminated with something now. No simple or cheap fix.

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#8
In reply to #2

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/15/2012 12:11 AM

If this is a hermetic unit, there is no reason the compressor shouldn't run unless the Start capacitor has dried out or shorted. Refrigeration oil is specially formulated to be non-gumming, so the motor should start unless the system has been breached or the oil contaminated from burnt insulation.

In that case, the system would have to be flushed and evacuated, filter-dryers and a new compressor installed, and a recharge with the exact amounts of the specified refrigerant and oil required by this system. The cost of repair could easily exceed the price of a new unit, especially if you don't have experience working on refrigeration.

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#3

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/14/2012 1:01 AM

This is not a job for an amateur, have a pro look at it....

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#4

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/14/2012 3:16 PM

Check the start capacitor and the relay contacts and the overheat relay. If they are all good, the compressor will hum as it tries to start. Like an old car starter, a little rap on the side as a last resort won't make much difference.

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#5

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/14/2012 10:27 PM

There are hard starts that have the start and run caps built in but rapping it as power is applied is your best chance as Mike K stated. The rings aren't siezed because all you internals are aluminum. If it's running and not doing work the reed valves displaced or the piston is off the crank. It's hermetic so you can't repair it. If you are not equipped to replace the compressor your self you need a new unit. A replacement at 110 is probably 1/3 hp or less and $150 or less over the counter at the local United or Johnstone

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/14/2012 11:55 PM

Yes, you must toss it out. I suspect that it is now illegal to refill this unit now? See if the charge and type of freon are listed on it.

As others have said, check the externals - relays, pressure limit switches(if any) etc.

If the unit was sealed, it may be OK. There is no way you can economically repair these small units if there are broken internal parts because it takes skill and experience to do this.

I would look with care for any evidence of broken lines anywhere. If you find any, then I suspect the unit has lost all the refrigerate. This unit with then 'breathe' water vapor with daily temperature changes over the years, and the aluminum will have corroded, expanded, and ruined it.

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#6

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/14/2012 10:49 PM

You might try rigging a 220 V line with a momentary contact switch to the compressor motor and hitting it with short jolts of power to break it loose. The cylinder bores are usually cast iron, not aluminum so corrosion is a possibility. A refrigeration tech could discharge the system and then put in a fresh charge of oil and refrigerant. That might also let the system start up after a few days soak.

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/15/2012 4:55 PM

I haven't cut open a hermetic compressor in at least 3 years but I have not seen any with cast iron internals in the last 40 years. The last would be a "Worthington" but they went out of business in the 1950's. I'm used to stainless sleeves, aluminum rods and pistons and brass alloy rings. They are not as readily damaged by the hcl created by moisture in the system and they are non magnetic. The read valves are usually stainless as well.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/16/2012 12:31 PM

Agreed! GA. Also, since most RV a/c unit are 10,000 or 12,000 or 13,500 BTU, I don't think a 1/3 hp or $150.00 is going to cut it. Maybe an old "Annie" may start it, if he could find someone with one. -- JHF

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#9

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/15/2012 3:35 AM

Do you have a 110-0-110 volt/ 220V supply available ? If so, you have the key ro reversing the ac compressor.

The compressor has a run winding and a start winding. If both ends of both windings were available, reversing the connections to either (but not both) winding would reverse the compressor's motor.

Unfortunately there are only three leads, run, start and common.

(Reverse the rotational direction of the starting field acting on the squirrel-cage rotor to reverse the motor.)

Reversing the phase of the voltage applied to either winding will do the trick.

Method:-

Connect the common lead to the mains centre tap (check that plugging in the a/c does this, if not, make it happen).

Separate the run line and feed it from the anti-phase (220V) line.

Provide a double-pole switch in the two 110V lines feeding the two windings and a solid connection to the common.

Turn on for two seconds only and repeat after two minutes until rotation occurs.

Good luck!

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#10

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/15/2012 5:24 AM

YOU CAN TRY A NEW LARGER CAPACITOR AND IT MAY START BUT MOSTLY LIKELY YOU WILL END UP REPLACING THE UNIT OR COMPRESSOR. IT MOST LIKELY WAS SIEZED UP BEFORE YOUR PURCHASE.

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#11

Re: AC-Stuck Rings

04/15/2012 7:10 AM

Hi durtieduck,

The problem you are experiencing is not that uncommon especially amongst hermetic compressors (the totally sealed compressors that are fitted inside most aircon units and fridges - sometimes refered to as 'Dome' compressors).

There are a couple of reasons for this problem but the most common suspected cause is that a small piece of dirt may have lodged in the compressor. Dirt can end up in the refrigerant circuit from a number of causes - dirty charging, poor practice when repairing or replacing components and also during manufacture

You did not give any further information except to say it would not run and maybe the rings were seized. You also mentioned that it was a 110v unit. I have no idea of your technical capabilities but if you are confident and experienced enough (if not please seek professional assistance) then please carry out the following tests :-

- have you confirmed power is getting to the compressor terminals i.e. did you hear any attempt to start or was there any vibration. I ask this because it is also possible that the thermostat may be defective. It would be better if you were checking the current (amps) being drawn with a clamp-on ampmeter (tong tester) when you attempted a start. A stuck compressor would normally draw high amps based on the fact that it is basically in a locked rotor condition.

- I have a fairly easy method of testing whether the power is getting to the compressor (No! I don't use my finger!!!) :- I disconnect the wires from the compressor (noting exactly which terminals they were connected to) and then connect a test lamp (lead light) first between the common and run wires and then if the light comes on then do the same test between the common and start wires. If the lamp comes on for both tests then your compressor would need replacement but if not, then you have a power problem and need to trace back for faulty thermostat or disconnected (broken) wiring within the unit.

Please note - switch OFF and disconnect the power while making these connections and ensure that the disconnected wires are not touching each other or the unit frame!

- have you tested the capacitor or replaced it with one of the same rating (voltage and capacitance) Do NOT go bigger or smaller! Although a lot of meters can measure capacitance I would normally only use this as a guide and prefer replacement. I know there are quite a few repair technicians that believe that installing a capacitor with a higher rating solves the problem but by doing this you alter the characteristics of the motor and normally end up with other problems although these may not be immediately apparent. The capacitor on a single phase motor is in circuit to place the start winding out of phase with the run winding. This is what enables the single phase motor to start and the angle that the start winding is out of phase is determined by the size of rating of the capacitor. This rating is determined by the motor manufacturer and is part of the design parameters for that particular motor. It is true though that within the refrigeration compressor industry you will find that a lot of the manufacturers tend to standardise on the ratings of the capacitors using between 20 & 35 mfd capacitors but the Golden Rule applies here - when replacing components in a system use identical components at all times. The guys that designed that system are normally a lot cleverer than us and have done extensive R & D.

Note that 3 phase motors do not require a starting capacitor.

- have you checked that the windings of the compressor are ok? Do this with the power switched OFF and the plug removed!There are three terminals and they are normally marked either on the cover or adjacent to the terminals :- C = Common, R = Run winding & S = Start winding. Measure the resistance (ohms) of the two windings to confirm that you don't have an open circuit. i.e. C to R =?, C to S = ? & R to S should equal the sum of the first two windings ohms.

- releasing a stuck compressor is a fairly simple exercise and most fridge mechs use one of the diagnostic compressor testers which have a function to do this but it is possible to do this by just swapping over the connections of the start (S) and run (R) windings and then applying power for a very short time : Do NOT exceed one (1) second! Also do NOT exceed three attempts!

- lastly you can read up on this by downloading "Modern Refrigeration and Air Conditioning' from http://www.firstload.com/?uniq=6784f8a9a81df410&log=47515&fn=modern+refrigeration+and+air... and looking up releasing a stuck compressor.

I hope the above is of assistance to you in resolving this problem but would seriously caution you that if you are not experienced enough to carry out these tests then rather seek professional advice - it's a lot safer!

Regards,

Keith

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