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Associate

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Singapore
Posts: 26

What Happens When a Prime Mover Runs Faster Than its Coupled Alternator?

04/23/2012 8:41 PM

Hi Guys,

I have currently a CAT C2.2 engine coupled to a Genco alternator, rated to 50Hz @ 1500RPM.

As we are facing some problem with the engine speed controller, we are unable to ramp the engine to rated speed since the speed controller fail to send a signal to the fuel actuator to allow fuel to enter the engine.

Hence, we decide to bypass the controller and inject direct 12V to the actuator and the engine is able to run , but at a higher speed of 1850 rpm ( This is the default setting of the fuel lever on the engine ). We do not wish to risk adjusting the fuel lever manually as we are still in the midst of solving the controller problem.

Now, my question is , if my alternator is only rated to 1500 rpm and the prime mover is running at 1850 rpm, what is the consequence of doing this? (Under the condition that the alternator is not excited yet ).

I believe there will be some mechanical damage to the alternator?

Kindly advise.

Thanks!

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Associate

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#1

Re: What happens when a prime move run faster than its coupled alternator?

04/23/2012 8:51 PM

Hi Guys,

Adding to my previous question, is anyone of you familiar with woodward APECS 3100 series woodward controller?

When I power up the controller, the led located on the right side of the controller only flashes once for 1 second and that after that , there is no led indication anymore.

Is this normal?

Do i need to perform any configuration on the controller?

This is shipped together with CAT engine and I highly suspect that the controller is already configured in CAT Factory during their testing .

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Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 390
Good Answers: 18
#11
In reply to #1

Re: What happens when a prime move run faster than its coupled alternator?

04/25/2012 12:17 PM

If I were you I would read the manual, which is available at

http://www.traycana.com/catalogues/apecs/APECS3000.pdf

The text includes
"The APECS controller is capable of identifying certain fault conditions and alerting the user to them. A flashing LED indicates the fault conditions. The current fault code list is shown in Table IV. Please note the following:
1. When power is first applied to the controller, the LED will flash just once for one second to indicate that the LED is working. [which answers your query]
2. If there are multiple faults, the LED will flash them all.
3. If there are no faults, the LED will flash once at reset and from then on indicate the detection of engine speed.
4. The controller will attempt to shut down for all faults and will not permit starting after reset with faults 1, 5 and 6."
I suspect the controller has not been set up in the first place.

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Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 135
Good Answers: 7
#12
In reply to #11

Re: What happens when a prime move run faster than its coupled alternator?

04/25/2012 2:26 PM

What he said.....phph001,


Plus; 1500 rpm = 25 revolutions per second, exactly one half the frequency for 50 Hz system.


1800 rpm = 30 rev per second, exactly one half the frequency of 60 Hz system.


Your engine fuel controller is set up to automatically adjust the fuel into the engine to maintain the same speed, RPM, output frequency, under changing load conditions. Like adjusting the gas pedal when going up and down a hill, to maintain the same speed in a car. You could think of it as a cruise control for your generator.


Running the genset at 60 Hz will probably not hurt the alternator. However, the voltage controller may freak out when the frequency is not what it's expecting. Additionally your load must be purely resistance (not likely), or the equipment you connect to it may not 'play well' with your alternator and it may go at least a little crazy trying.

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#2

Re: What happens when a prime move run faster than its coupled alternator?

04/23/2012 8:56 PM

Hi,

If you disconnect all electrical wiring from Voltage regulator to alternator and run the engine. This would effect nothing on alternator, but will definetely effect on your engine..leakage oil in every where due to engine having not enough temperature in combution chamber.

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#3

Re: What Happens When a Prime Mover Runs Faster Than its Coupled Alternator?

04/24/2012 3:27 AM
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Guru

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Posts: 577
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#6
In reply to #3

Re: What Happens When a Prime Mover Runs Faster Than its Coupled Alternator?

04/24/2012 11:15 AM

Good suggestion, but I suspect the link is

http://www.genco-power.com/english/ecompany.asp

Appears to be in Taiwan.

OP: Is this a new unit? Did you receive operating, installation, and maintenance manuals for the unit? Is it under warranty? How about start-up assistance?

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Power-User

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#4

Re: What Happens When a Prime Mover Runs Faster Than its Coupled Alternator?

04/24/2012 4:53 AM

Theres a relation between the mover frequency and the the electrical frequency... for a change of 350 cycles it is expectable a increment in electrical freq. on the alternator... not too big, but a increment none the less. It wont destroy the alternator, but it wont gave i´m any health insurance for sure. Try to provide a lesser voltage on that actuator!

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#5

Re: What Happens When a Prime Mover Runs Faster Than its Coupled Alternator?

04/24/2012 9:49 AM

Just from an observer's position, I do not think the change from 1500 to 1850 is a serious thing if the alternator is not producing any power. If it is, then the extra speed is going to change the Hz from 50, to 61.66. This is just slightly above what the gen set would be producing if sold for the U.S. market. The voltage will also likely climb above the desired voltage which might also damage things. I don't think you should chance it. Good luck.

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Associate

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#7

Re: What Happens When a Prime Mover Runs Faster Than its Coupled Alternator?

04/24/2012 8:47 PM

I thought that since the generator is designed for 1500 rpm, and if we will to run it @ 1800 rpm , there will be some mechanical damage to its rotor?

Since the rotor is designed for 1500 rpm only?

Or am I wrong?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: What Happens When a Prime Mover Runs Faster Than its Coupled Alternator?

04/24/2012 8:55 PM

On alternator, mechanically have no damage. Just make sure that your engine has dual application 1500 and 1800, if only single 1500 and you force to run it on 1800, sure you will get serious mechanical problem

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: What Happens When a Prime Mover Runs Faster Than its Coupled Alternator?

04/25/2012 10:44 AM

I am not the designer of the alternator, nor the rotor, but If you were manufacturing an electrical generating product, and were selling 50Hz and 60Hz versions, would you want to have to make two different parts that do the same thing, only at a slightly different speed? There may be differences in the windings of the two different rotors, but to think that the 1500 RPM one would self destruct by running 350 RPM higher seems to me to be foolish design work. JMHO.

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#9

Re: What Happens When a Prime Mover Runs Faster Than its Coupled Alternator?

04/25/2012 10:10 AM

if the prime mover speed shoots, its no problem becaz by increasing the prime mover speed there will be only change in freqency of alternator...

n=120f/p

now as the n (rpm) is increased the frequency will also increase

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