Login | Register
The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®

Previous in Forum: Connecting Circuit Control Forward and Reverse   Next in Forum: How to Read Motor Performance Chart/Sheet?
Close

Comments Format:






Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







29 comments
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 27

Running a 120V Load From a Fluorescent Ballast

05/05/2012 6:54 PM

Any ideas on what type of voltage regulator would stand up to the output of a fluorescent ballast for emergency lighting? Something not too expensive I can build to take whatever comes out of the ballast and supply 40 watts, regulated 120V.

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: fluorescent ballast Voltage Regulation
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kennewick, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 2808
Good Answers: 102
#1

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 7:24 PM

Uh, since the ballast is fed with 120VAC, why even use the ballast?

__________________
"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." -- Albert Einstein
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 34° 34' 21.60" N, 92° 55' 42.28" W
Posts: 20930
Good Answers: 785
#2

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 7:50 PM

Why would you need to regulate 120V if you have 120V in the first place.

This makes no sense. Why not just use a UPS?

__________________
Luck comes and goes. Skill is forever. Intelligence either is, or it ain't. lyn
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 5458
Good Answers: 270
#3

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 8:15 PM
__________________
The relentless pursuit of pacification....
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ketchikan, AK, USA
Posts: 12930
Good Answers: 463
#4

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 8:40 PM

If power fails to the fluorescent light, then its ballast is not energized, and thus not available as an emergency power source, anyway.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 27
#8
In reply to #4

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 10:07 PM

This is about when the bulbs fail and there's no replacement available. Not if the power fails.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 5458
Good Answers: 270
#5

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 9:58 PM

A fluorescent light ballast is a specially engineered device to control the current flow in fluorescent light bulbs, you see gases don't conduct electricity in the same way as solids. One major difference between solids and gases is their electrical resistance (the opposition to flowing electricity). In a solid metal conductor such as a wire, resistance is a constant at any given temperature, controlled by the size of the conductor and the nature of the material.

In a gas discharge, such as a fluorescent lamp, current causes resistance to decrease. This is because as more electrons and ions flow through a particular area, they bump into more atoms, which frees up electrons, creating more charged particles. In this way, current will climb on its own in a gas discharge, as long as there is adequate voltage (and household AC current has a lot of voltage). If the current in a fluorescent light isn't controlled, it can blow out the various electrical components.

A fluorescent lamp's ballast works to control this. The simplest sort of ballast, generally referred to as a magnetic ballast, works something like an inductor. A basic inductor consists of a coil of wire in a circuit, which may be wound around a piece of metal. If you've know How Electromagnets Work, you know that when you send electrical current through a wire, it generates a magnetic field. Positioning the wire in concentric loops amplifies this field.

This sort of field affects not only objects around the loop, but also the loop itself. Increasing the current in the loop increases the magnetic field, which applies a voltage opposite the flow of current in the wire. In short, a coiled length of wire in a circuit (an inductor) opposes change in the current flowing through it (see How Inductors Work for details). The transformer elements in a magnetic ballast use this principle to regulate the current in a fluorescent lamp.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/fluorescent-lamp6.htm

__________________
The relentless pursuit of pacification....
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 34° 34' 21.60" N, 92° 55' 42.28" W
Posts: 20930
Good Answers: 785
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 10:05 PM

Don't think your novel addresses, "what type of voltage regulator would stand up to the output of a fluorescent ballast for emergency lighting".

"Emergency" says it all. That means battery power. As in DC.

__________________
Luck comes and goes. Skill is forever. Intelligence either is, or it ain't. lyn
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 27
#9
In reply to #6

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 10:10 PM

Looking for a way to juice up a standard bulb if the tube goes out and there's no replacements available. And removing or bypassing the ballast is not the option I was looking for as a replacement T8 will be reinstalled.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 34° 34' 21.60" N, 92° 55' 42.28" W
Posts: 20930
Good Answers: 785
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 10:21 PM

Don't be a fool. Just plug this in till you get a new bulb.

Now, you'll tell us there are no outlets???????????

Item Number: NAT40007

__________________
Luck comes and goes. Skill is forever. Intelligence either is, or it ain't. lyn
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 27
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 10:49 PM

If there were outlets this question would have never been posed. Questions is not about finding options like "use a flashlight or find a candle". Question was not a riddle.

Just looking for a way to light up an incandescent bulb from a florescent fixture without removing the ballast.

If it can't be done, than the discussion is moot.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 34° 34' 21.60" N, 92° 55' 42.28" W
Posts: 20930
Good Answers: 785
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 10:55 PM

No problem. Sure you can. I'd use LED's though.

There are so many better ways to do this.

__________________
Luck comes and goes. Skill is forever. Intelligence either is, or it ain't. lyn
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ketchikan, AK, USA
Posts: 12930
Good Answers: 463
#13
In reply to #11

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 10:55 PM

Hook the bulb up to the incoming 120v wires to the ballast. I think this has already been mentioned. Why on earth would anyone ever think of going to the other side of the ballast??

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 27
#19
In reply to #13

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 6:15 PM

Because the end user would have to open the fixture. You realize some people don't even know how to remove a wire nut?

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ketchikan, AK, USA
Posts: 12930
Good Answers: 463
#21
In reply to #19

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 6:20 PM

And how do they wire it to the other side of the ballast without opening the fixture?

As for wire nuts, is that the voice of experience? Hint: lefty loosy, righty tighty.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 27
#24
In reply to #21

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 9:44 PM

Yes. My experience has shown that many people can't even handle a wire stripper. My final design has to be "turn key" simple. You realize there's even some that can't install a fluorescent bulb no? My clients are not technical.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 27
#7

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/05/2012 10:05 PM

If the fluorescent bulbs goes, you can't simply plug in an incandescent bulb. To remove the ballast, you would need to take apart the fixture. Not an option for some people. The ballast takes control over the bulbs lack of adequate resistance. There's got to be a way to present a load and safely grab 120V from the outputs of the fixture.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kennewick, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 2808
Good Answers: 102
#15
In reply to #7

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 4:38 AM

Well, Mr. NY CLean Water,

You seem to be kinf of an a$$. For people replying to your amazingly detailless original post with a simple question, you rate their answer as off-topic. Now, after the 20-questions game, we finally find out specifically what you want to do (but we may not have the full picture even now, hmmm.)

What you are describing is not emergency lighting, but automatically-deployable backup lighting.

What I could/would do would be to have a load detection relay circuit tied into the primary of the ballast. When a drop in load is an indicator of a blown fluorescent tube, a relay switches power from the 120VAC ballast primary to a 100W incandescent load.

You'd better stock up on 100W incandescents before they dissappear from the market

Questions? Rebuttals?

I'll beat you to it and already mark this ass Off-Topic

__________________
"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." -- Albert Einstein
Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Guru
Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 34° 34' 21.60" N, 92° 55' 42.28" W
Posts: 20930
Good Answers: 785
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 10:17 AM

I've got a better idea.

Treat this useless, waste-of-time thread like other useless, waste-of-time threads; make like a sheep, and get the flock outta here.

Bye.

__________________
Luck comes and goes. Skill is forever. Intelligence either is, or it ain't. lyn
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 3428
Good Answers: 464
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 11:35 AM

Baaaaaah.....

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 27
#23
In reply to #16

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 9:23 PM

Thanks for the previous posts. What's a waste of time for you has helped me with the project significantly.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 27
#22
In reply to #15

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 9:20 PM

No actually great reply. The point here is to not require the end user to dismantle the fixture. Thanks for the a$$ comment though. Cute. But off topic. :)

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Commissariat de Police, Nouvions, occupied France, 1942.
Posts: 667
Good Answers: 18
#18
In reply to #7

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 5:12 PM

Unless I'm being thick, Guv, you need to grab your 120V from the wires feeding the fixture. So why the hell are you messing about with the ballast?

If you want an emergency light that stays on when the power goes, don't mess about, just buy one.

__________________
Good moaning!
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: 1° North Singapore
Posts: 467
Good Answers: 15
#14

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 1:56 AM

Fluorescent ballast will generate high voltage ,as high as 1 kv during start up to ignite the FL tube. Is it easier just to tap from AC mains.

__________________
Sharing knowledge is one thing that defies basic arithmetic logic --- the more you share, the more you get!
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 27
#20
In reply to #14

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 6:16 PM

I know. This is why my original post mentioned voltage regulator. No one else really addressed it.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 27
#25
In reply to #14

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 9:49 PM

Bravo you think a varistor based circuit, feeding a drop down 120-15V transformer, into a rectifier to a 12V Reg would work to give me a constant 12V DC supply? Weighing all the options here.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ketchikan, AK, USA
Posts: 12930
Good Answers: 463
#26
In reply to #25

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/06/2012 9:52 PM

How do you imagine that someone who can't even handle a wire nut will manage all of that other stuff?

This whole story is amazingly incoherent.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: 1° North Singapore
Posts: 467
Good Answers: 15
#27
In reply to #25

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/07/2012 1:47 AM

If you already have a 120v to 15 v transformer , why not just connect this trafo to the 120 v AC supply?, forget the ballast!

__________________
Sharing knowledge is one thing that defies basic arithmetic logic --- the more you share, the more you get!
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Van Nuys, CA
Posts: 550
Good Answers: 30
#28
In reply to #27

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/07/2012 7:04 PM

I think I've deciphered the OP's intent:

He wants to build and sell a unit to the general public that directly plugs into the fluorescent tube's contacts. Somehow, this is supposed to be better than simply maintaining a stock of replacement tubes.

As for the actual device, beyond the design issues, I foresee potential difficulties with the myriad regulating bodies (e.g., Underwriter's Lab, national/local/international electrical code, etc.).

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing. Kettle's on.
Posts: 19606
Good Answers: 471
#29
In reply to #28

Re: Running a 120V load from a fluorescent ballast...

05/08/2012 9:12 AM

In that case, "flocking off" [as in #16↑] would seem to be the best thing to do with this post.

<unsubscribes>

__________________
There was a time, not long ago, when people were smarter than their phones... (tips hat to CR4 user Harley.)
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 29 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

bravo88 (2); Crabtree (1); JRaef (1); lyn (5); Mikerho (2); NY CLean Water (10); pantaz (1); PWSlack (1); SolarEagle (2); Tornado (4)

Previous in Forum: Connecting Circuit Control Forward and Reverse   Next in Forum: How to Read Motor Performance Chart/Sheet?