Classic Car...Suggestions Please!

Thanks lyn. It has a 298 in it, which is of legend, so I feel comfortable acclimating to it and find parts. The car overall is 90% done, and I'm trying to set up a meet with the owner.

283 Cu. In. was stock for that year Chevy.

So the vacuum system on the Corvette sucks does it?

If you order a rebuilt engine through GM, you usually get a four bolt because they figure it might be used in a truck. If his block and heads aren't cracked and can still be machined, rebuild kits are cheap. Long live J.C. Whitney.

The cost of used Chevy low performance engines makes rebuilding cost prohibitive. If the cylinder walls have ridge marks where the piston rings did not ride, the engine will need to be bored, and new pistons installed. The price of this will make buying a used engine a better alternative.

I agree that Chevy is the way to go, although, unless the frequent purchase of gasoline is important, I'd stay away from the V8's. I also wouldn't worry too much about the "classic" aspect of things.

My personal vote would be for any Chevy that is in decent shape and has a stock, inline 6 cylinder, 250 under the hood. The mileage is surprisingly good, plenty of power, and the engine is easy enough to work on, that even a novice with a decent manual can do it all.

Old Nova comes to mind.

I should add... whatever your budget is for this vehicle, double it. There will be all kinds of unexpected problems both before you get it on the road and after you get it on the road.

I have done this enough times to prove that true.

There's one other thing I love about SB Chevys, and hate about most other vehicles.

You can change the oil without dumping the contents of the oil filter down the side of the engine block and onto the ground.

You can also install the new filter with a full charge of oil already in it. This does away almost entirely with the no-oil-pressure-at-startup after changing the oil.

Trivial, perhaps, if you don't do your own oil changes.

For a first timer, go with something popular, for which you can find repair parts. (The Impala is a good choice in this regard.) Expect every aspect of performance to be far worse than in a current car: bad handling, bad mileage, 100 times the emissions of a new car (literally), bad brakes, sloppy steering, no airbags, no ABS, short maintenance intervals, etc.

Given that you are going to put up with lousy performance, then make sure that the car is something you really love. If resale is a concern, then do some research: in general, cars that were in very high regard when new give better returns: Pontiac GTO, early Mustangs, etc.

Prices vary dramatically for collector cars, and even more dramatically for those that are not strongly collectible. (You see '66 Chevies that are in rotten condition and some that are pristine, whereas the more collectible cars are more likely to be restored.)

Just be careful. In a head-on crash, old cars lose to newer smaller cars.

I follow the classic car field quite closely and read Hemmings, Sports Car & Exotic, Octane, Classic Cars and Thoroughbred & Classic Cars regularly. Most articles advise you on not buying basket cases or even "rough" or "semi-rough" ones - the cost to refurbish usually exceeds the value of the final product, often by a large margin. So point No. 1 is don't skimp - buy a good one. Point no. 2 is to buy something which is "underappreciated" at present. Easier said than done, I admit, but such cars are often featured in these mags. This way, it is highly likely that your purchase will increase in value. On the other hand, if you are just going for the fun of it, forget logic and choose something you are very enthusiastic about. Enthusiasm carries you a long way.

I assume that you are not interested in foreign cars, so big, thirsty and mean American classics are your best choice. The Chevrolet Corvair, although it doesn't fit that profile, is underpriced at present.

I remember a newspaper article many years ago on which is the "cheapest car to run over 10 years?" - a BMC Mini or a Bentley Continental. The Bentley was the hands down winner, despite being thirsty and expensive to service, because it appreciated so much in price, while the Mini was (at the time) approaching "scrap value" after 10 years. This can be paraphrased quite neatly as "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."

You raise a very good point.

The price of restoring a vehicle almost always costs significantly more than you would pay for the same car restored from a seller.

Buying a project car is almost rarely for an investment, but a labor of love. Those cars that are worthy of the cost of restoration (i.e., ground up) are typically way, way out of the normal person's financial reach and rarely go at a bargain price unfinished.

You would be amazed how far $20,000 will not go when doing a proper restoration.

I used to own a 1965 Impala SS with a 283 so similar to the 66 Impala you're looking at. Not sure if Gotham City is in the rust belt but if it is check the frame right in front of the rear wheels and the cross member in front of the rear bumper. Both places were prone to rusting badly. Otherwise I loved the car. Easy to work on so a good car to start with.

If you're buying this as a second car to have something to do with your spare time, and are interested in cars and like going to car events and hanging with car guy groups, if you can afford to keep and restore this vehicle without taking from more important areas of your life, if you have a sheltered place to keep and work on this vehicle, then by the power invested in V-8 engines everywhere, I now pronounce you, car and owner....congratulations, you may start the engine....

These replies have been great. All very helpful. I'm playing phone tag with the owner now.

Gotham sees its fair share of snow in January and February, but it wouldn't see much--if any--salt. It'd be garage kept, as well, with regular washings and bimonthly waxing. Outside of bad weather, I intend to make this my daily driver. This may be mistaken, but I'd feel safer in an older car in most instances. An all-steel frame adds mass, and a small-block should provide velocity. But, I also don't plan on crashing.

Perhaps the best point that's been raised that I didn't consider: repair costs. I have no problem putting the car on the road with some overhead cost, but a parts search turns up premiums for some items. I suppose this falls in line with 'energyconversion' and his post on appreciation. People know I need part X, so they charge double what if should be, even for a retrofit, because it's overappreciated.

No one plans on an accident.

With the way you have worded your argument I would say you are also not planning on being prepared, either.

Ouch.

And we have this wonderful community to point that out.

Perhaps an upgrade to disk brakes is in order?

SSBC Drum to Disc Brake Conversion Kits

Good choice for an upgrade, but the 69 and 70 full sized Chevys were almost all disc brake optioned, and can be had at junk yards for 1/4 the price of SSBC parts.

As long as I am preaching, the 65 to 70 full sized Chevys were all on the same basic chassis. The brakes are better on the later ones. The fuel tanks grew in size from 19 all the way to 25 gallon by 70. The 67 cars went to duel master cylinders. This alone is a good upgrade, but adding discs is better.

Again, I would caution you to inspect closly for rust. Especially on the rear section of the frame as noted before. The front seat can be exchanged for a 65 to 70 full sized GM car of your choice. Caddilac seats of that period had the power seat switch mounted directly to the seat, and only require a single wire to make them work.

Enjoy the car. you will need to enjoy the car to get the value out of it. Good luck.

Another cheap easy and productive upgrade is the 75 and later HEI large cap distributer. Just take the wire on the existing positive side of the coil, and use a spade connector to attach it to the BATT connection on the new distributer. Long life out of the spark plugs , and smoother idle with the wider gap.

Impala Bob's, a place where you can spend all your spare time and money.....

http://www.impalas.com/

Classic industries...

Car parts discount...

More...

Go for a CJ:

Tons of parts, plenty of help and great clubs. Whether you go for offroad or pavement princess. Easy to work on.

You might try Cross Roads of Dixie Classic Car Club Located in Lawrenceburg, TN. They have a huge selections and are always trading and rebuilding old cars. If interested contact me at

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and I can find the president of the club.

While many of the comments are accurate, and several point out potential pitfalls; almost every poster has done exactly what you are doing.

Parts are readily available, maintenance is more challenging but also more user friendly, books aplenty.

I'd leave the brakes alone for the moment. IMHO.

For reasonable parts prices hit J.C. Whitney and NAPA for parts, if it is not running solid now, buy a good parts interchange book. What may cost the earth for a '66 Impala may also be in use for a '90 pickup.

Restoration parts as a subcategory cost the earth - smile.

Daily driver with no backup? Probably not the first few months.

In addition to most regular tools, you will need a couple not much used anymore:

A timing light, a dwell meter, a set of gap gauges.

Never skimp on tool quality, but don't buy what you don't need.

Find a good independant garage with a couple old farts still working under the hood. You'll need backup and help occasionally.

And have some good, greasy fun!

Something to consider.

I have done a number of restorations. Generally a lot of money went into them. More than they were worth, book value. That is the issue. Let's say you get away with putting only $5000 into the car. If you can get a regular insurance company to write a policy, and if they will insure it for collision/comprehensive, it is only worth $500 to $1000 tops to them. If you damage even just a fender, they will consider it totaled and take the car, even if another driver is at fault.

So you say, what about those specialty car insurers that cover at "agreed value", which has to be justified by an appraisal? Great, if you don't intend to use it as daily transportation and only for shows, events, occasional trips that are automotive related and the occasional drive to check it out close to home. Many of those policies restrict yearly mileage. Some don't but that's what you will pay for. If you intend it as daily transportation, will it be worth $1000 to $2000 per year or more depending on the "agreed value"? Or should you risk it for what you have into it by not having collision/comprehensive? In a standard insurance accident situation you have the choice of accepting what they say is the book value or rejecting their offer and absorbing the cost of repair yourself, even if you are not at fault. And what about theft. Most older cars can be started with a metal rod (screwdriver) and a jumper wire. I had one that would run, sort of, if the four way flasher and wiper were turned on at the same time and the starter solenoid was jumped with a screwdriver.

I certainly don't want to discourage you. The pride of driving a vehicle that you have personally worked hard to rescue from the brink of extinction is worth it. I just want to lay out the realities for you to consider. Risk or piece of mind. You get what you pay for.

You have to get Stated Value or Collector Car insurance.... That's the only way to go....

I'd like to add that IF you're doing this for investment reasons then you'll most likely never realize recouping your money, unless the car is an exceptionally rare one.

That said, you are better served if you talk to the Chevy Impala Guru's on their website and learn all about the car as best as you can, especially the manufacturer's codes found on the firewall plate. If an investment car ask the present owner for a thorough history and documentation of the car in writing, as well as verifying that there are matching "numbers" present. All too many times a would be collector/investor of cars who is not "well read" and informed on the specific car type has gotten really hosed by the seller. Sometimes the car is patched together from stolen or parts from a boneyard or boneyards and is passed off as a collectible car. There's a number of good websites about collector cars present that you MUST visit to avoid the many many pitfalls that await you. If need be seek out the local Chevy collectors in your area and visit the local car shows....shoot the Chit with the guys that know their Chevys....avoid the BSer's (there's a lot of them around, no matter where you go), and know the difference between those two groups!

And don't forget to verify the legal ownership title thoroughly, as well as if the car is a "salvaged" one........in all, BUYER BEWARE!

Avanti by Studebaker early 1960's. 200+ MPH. Easy engine parts. And 'stops a train' good looks. R1, R2 and R3 Paxton blower versions are nicely priced and the body is decent fiberglass. Designed by the Raymond Lowey 'the father of modern industrial design'. A real eyeball magnet that trumps ALL.

My late father owned a '68 Avanti w/ a 327 CID Chevy engine for 25 plus years. Somehow I don't think that any Avanti is capable of 200 MPH with or without a blower. the aerodynamics just aren't there......you'd be airborne before you hit 130.

He also owned a Ferrari 308 GTS. Now that car was exotic looking and fairly aero. I believe the top speed was around 162 MPH. I learned to drive a manual trannie on that car when I was 16. And when my dad, who was sitting in the passenger seat next to me, said "PUNCH IT", he really meant it! Later on when I was 18, I managed to get it up to 138 MPH one late night (mom and dad were on a vacation out of town hehehehe) on a local Interstate that had just been repaved and smooth as baby's behind. I probably could have gone faster, but a glance off to my left as the trees and and guardrails flashed by incredibly fast scared the living chit outta me. I didn't have a dead wish after all! Problem occurred with the tach and speedometer sticking at the high spots....when my parents got home later that week my dad nearly killed me after noticing the malfunctioning instruments!!!!

Avanti air dam front and forward 'fender' ridges allowed the R2 to well exceed 200 miles per hour and broke several Salt Flats records. It was Andy Granatelli's sp?(STP) production and modified production screamer. Buried in my scrapbook are the figures and pics and specs. The 327 was no match for the original R2/R3 engines but you were a very fortunate fellow indeed.

Okay, that may make some sense now regarding a specially prepared Avanti for Andy G. on the Salt Flats......it doesn't apply to stock production cars obviously.

I know the feeling when telephone poles start to look like a picket fence.

Night time is the worst due to the possible animal or deer strike.

Yeah tell me about it! Deer collisions are a frightening possibility!

Did you know: that there are 27 Million deer in the USA and they're populations are largely going unchecked? Also, your odds of dying from a deer-vehicle collision is roughly 1 in 88? Scary huh? Puts things into perspective real fast!

Since I've been driving (since 1976), I've hit 4 deer. And since I moved down here 12 years ago, I had hit 3 deer in the first 5 months driving home from work...I also have had about 30 + near collisions. The deer population here in Dutchess and Columbia Counties is huge and getting bigger by the moment....lots of apple crops and veggie crops (incl. corn), very rural w/ lots wooded lands and farm lands....that, and coupled with the very unseasonal warm winter we just experienced the deer are really getting out of hand!

I live in a subdivision of approx. 300 homes....the damn deer are on our front lawn at night all of the time eating our trees, shrubs and bushes! It doesn't work trying to scare them away....that's temp! In fact, this morning I have landscaping contractor coming over to give me an estimate to fix all the deer-induced damage on our property. Yeah, it's that BAD!

Watched a near-miss once. The deer stopped beside a house, then just darted across the lawn and the road.

There really was no cognitive processing going through its head. It just stops where it thinks it can't be seen, pauses, then dashes with no regard to current environmental conditions. It is sort of a "Hope" plan, but without the hope.

I suspect that is how all deer do it. They really do not think about how to avoid traffic, they just sprint from hiding place to hiding place.

Fortunately, I have never hit a deer. I have had two cat fatalities and wounded one squirrel when I inadvertently ran over its tail.

Fortunately, I've never hit a dog or cat thank goodness, but I've had a string of bad luck hitting wildlife of all types.....from the deer, to a share of rabbits, skunks (Peppy LaPue), opossums, chipmunks, lots of gray "Tree Rats" (Squirrels), Racoons, all sorts of birds incl. a wild turkey (I brought that one home for dinner!), and even a porcupine.

But the worse one was hitting the "Mother of All Racoons". That sucker must have weighed between 55-60 lbs. I swear! It was like hitting a speed bump at 55 MPH and really jolted the chit out of my Dodge Avenger ES. What was really gross was when I brought it into my mechanic for a front end alignment shortly after hitting the beastie from hell and my poor mechanic buddy discover it's carcass intertwined with the brake system and the McPherson Strut. He had to literally pick it our piece by piece in order to repair the car.....and what a stench!!!! It made ya wanna puke.

Just so you don't think you are the only one jinxed, I had a friend call me up to look at his car because the alt light was on, and the belt seemed to be making a loud squeaking noise. Turned out that a rat had gotten cought in the serpintine belt when he started it. The rat died, but was still jammed into the alt. pully. I wish he had called me a few days earlier, before the maggots came for dinner.

200 KPH I could believe, but not MPH.

Not a stock production Avanti, and not quite 200mph, but close enough...

"An experimental R5 'Due Cento' Avanti equipped with fuel injection and dual superchargers developed an incredible 575 hp (thats more than a Dodge Viper!) and went a top speed of 196 mph! The R5 was never produced. When the hi-po R3 and R4 Avantis officially debuted mid-year 1964, "

"The car was amazing on the track and it caught the attention of Paxton Products president Andy Granatelli. Granatelli added more high-performance gear to the existing supercharged R2 to make the 330 bhp supercharged R3 and the 280 bhp R4 with a 4-barrel carb. "

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z4330/Studebaker-Avanti-R2.aspx

Nice blurb on the Studebaker Avanti here...This is an excellent example of a car rushed to production before all the bugs were worked out, causing total collapse of the brand...Steps forward in technology are best not taken at full gallop, but small slow careful thoughtful steps...The product was an accurate representation of the organization that produced it...

http://www.studebaker-info.org/Avanti/AV123/avanti2.html

Many Old Potential restoration projects, including "Parts" cars are being crushed due to the high value of the steel going to China, etc... I have been watching a coven of Studebakers go in the last few months... I've salvaged one and am building another Studebaker truck from this mess.

One thing I consider most important about antiques..... ALWAYS check the underside of the vehicle for rust-thru.... Rust can be blasted and stopped, but Rust-thru means welding in patch-panels, etc.... check the trunk, doors, fenders, floor pans, essentially anywhere water can accumulate.

I've seen cars that looked great on top, be rusted out on the bottom and unuseable, simply because they were parked in the grass. For some reason the dew on the grass gets into the floor pans, and presto, chango, rusto...

I use products like POR-15, etc to help keep the rust at bay... although, I blast away the rust first, I'll coat with the stuff the keep the cancer from coming back.

LONG LIVE STUDEBAKER!

*Comments From Left Field*

Consider re-building a classic motorcycle. Your cost on the project can be an order of magnitude less. You can get an incredibly nice bike for the cost of a so-so car. The size of the project is much more managable for a restoration beginner. It requires far less space. You can do a frame-off resoration by yourself. Chicks dig bikes.

Consider: 1973 B50 BSA to start with.

-A-

I rather fall off a car.

Wow! You CR4ers have really kept this thread's momentum going.

Here is the update: I viewed the vehicle Saturday evening. The car's exterior was immaculate. No dents, no scratches. Chrome package too. However, there was a decent amount of rust on the panel behind the rear wheel. The owner said it was from a plug installed in the panel preventing drainage. A new one would be somewhat cheap.

It also needed a whole new radiator and shroud. Rust has eaten through them too. Considering the car hadn't been registered since 2005 (since then it's been garaged and very slowly restored) I passed.

Worth the look though, and thanks for all the comments. They really helped!

Another bit of advice...

Anything you feel is worth serious consideration should go through a pre-purchase inspection by a shop you can trust.

The $100 spent will pay dividends and the laundry list of issues can be used for a bargaining chip if you determine that the issues are worth having at a lower price.

Keep in mind most engines built for leaded fuel will not like the unleaded fuel you will use in it. Their valve seats will hammer themselves to death. Older cars will also not like the 10% ethanol blend most of us buy because it will make them run too lean. If you want a beater, but a 10 year old Honda, Toyota, etc., from a southern state to avoid rust, put in a rebuilt engine if it needs it, and enjoy years of cheap driving.

As problems go, that is not the worst thing to find. The radiator and shroud are easy, cheap repairs, and were likely to have needed replacement from accumulated crap inside the radiator. The rust in the quarter panel is a common issue to these cars. Companies such as Sherman sell preformed sections that can be installed in place of the rusted area. A body shop would likely do a repair of this type for $500-$1,000. Is there decent paint on the car that the shop can match to?

I have to agree. Radiators and shrouds are very easy to replace. (Flush the block while you're at it).

If that's all that's wrong with the vehicle, I'd rethink buying it.

You can get fancy (I bought the biggest one he makes for my Arizona Vette $650.00USD) or just buy a stock radiator where you are.

Part Number

1-16IM9497

This could turn into a blog.

Good luck.

Or, this from NAPA that is used for everything from the 250, to the 396 with a/c.

Back	Part: NR 289 Product Line: NAPA Radiators List Price Your Cost Unit : : : 400.38 188.39 Each Qty Available: 0 Qty

HUSH, I like your train of thought here. I have a 71 SS El Camino, however I am getting where I am afraid to drive it as "Sheet metal" cost is high. ( you know Blue Hairs) I would recommend a 67 to 71 model Chevy of your choice and if you always want to have a good Resale value make it a CONVERTABLE. I would also suggest a "Crate" fuel injected small block as old engines suck.

Maybe I'll just start writing about classic autos in general.

I should note a couple of other things that turned me off. The upholstery would need work, since it was obviously replaced with a non-Impala/Caprice. (Could it have been from a Caddy? It looked like velour). It was also stained. The transmission also Powerglide, when I was hoping for a Hydramatic, or possibly even THM. Finally, it was single barrel carb.

(Yes, now you can point out that had I done a little more homework, I would have realized a 283 Hydramatic is silly.)

The owner 'believed' the car had matching #s as well. I'm okay with NOS parts, but because it was such a slow restoration, the owner couldn't remember which was which, and had no paperwork on it. The transmission and chassis definitely matched though.

Fact is, 4th Gen Impalas are a dream car for me, so I'm not willing to compromise much.