Login | Register
The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®

Previous in Forum: What is a Good Base Line Temp for Hot Electrical Connections?   Next in Forum: Siprotec Relay Teting
Close

Comments Format:






Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







15 comments
Associate

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: INDIA,Odisha.
Posts: 36

Run Single-Phase Induction Motor In Two Phase

05/15/2012 10:55 PM

Suppose distribution lines has phase-to-phase voltage 220 V instead of 440 V and service line( from electric pole to Home) has supply any 2- phase instead of single phase from 3-phage. my question is can I or is it possible to run Induction motor(Fan, Pump etc. with no starting winding) in this 220V phase to Phase supply.

thank you.

__________________
"Reduce GLOBAL WARMING & Make the World SMILING "
Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: induction motor run in 2-phase
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 5461
Good Answers: 270
#1

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/15/2012 11:13 PM

There is no 2 phase, it's called single phase 220, and yes some motors have an internal start winding, there are several types of motors without start winding but have reduced starting torque...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor

__________________
The relentless pursuit of pacification....
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 119
Good Answers: 3
#15
In reply to #1

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/17/2012 11:19 PM

Some configurations are delta 3X 220 Volts. Where is the neutral here? Thus 220 between 2 phases. I do not know if the US uses it but many other countries do.

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 3428
Good Answers: 464
#2

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/15/2012 11:16 PM

I think you are either confused about how your power is distributed in your part of India, or you have something very unusual. If I'm not mistaken, your distribution system is supposed to be 380Y220V, with 380V line to line and 220V from line to neutral. If you have 220V from line to line and you have a neutral, it would most likely be only 127V line to neutral. If you have 220V line to line and no neutral, that would be very odd, but would not likely affect the operation of 220V rated motors. Don't know where you come up with 440V.

Anyway if you have 3 phase motors and they lose a phase WHILE RUNNING, they may continue to run, but at 1/3 of their capacity. If the load does not change and is greater than 33% of the motor design capacity, then the motor will overload.

If the 3 phase motor is NOT running when a phase is lost, it cannot start, there is no relative phase roatation. If something else starts it mechanically, it will spin in whatever direction that was, but under the same restrictions as above.

If you have single phase 220V motors and were feeding them with 2 phases of a 220V 3 phase supply, then as long as the lost phase is not one of the two that are feeding the motor, no problem.

If you have 220V single phase motors running from a 380Y220V system and connected line to neutral for 220V, and the lost phase is not the one feeding the motor, again, no problem.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: INDIA,Odisha.
Posts: 36
#5
In reply to #2

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/16/2012 4:09 AM

Actually i am not confused. in India threre is in electric ploe's name plate written as 440 V Danger . forget it about 440. I know that 400 V line to Line and 231 V line toground. OK.

now Suppose distribution X-mer has 231Y133 (secondary).Line to line 231 and line to ground 133. Is it possible to run single phase induction motor(rated 231 V) , from any two line of 231Y133 X-mer ??

Thank you.

__________________
"Reduce GLOBAL WARMING & Make the World SMILING "
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing. Kettle's on.
Posts: 19611
Good Answers: 472
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/16/2012 5:43 AM

Yes, though to install it correctly and safely requires the services of a qualified electrician. Is there one available?

__________________
There was a time, not long ago, when people were smarter than their phones... (tips hat to CR4 user Harley.)
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 105
Good Answers: 4
#8
In reply to #5

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/17/2012 12:17 AM

In India distribution voltage is 415V TPN, 3 phase 4 wire system. One phase and neutral is distributed in each residential building and the single phase voltage (between phase and neutral) is 240 V. Hence I am not clear about the requirement of this transformer. A single phase motor rated for 230V or 240 V can very well be run with the avilable power supply provided by the power distribution company.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Pakistan - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pakistan: 33.2N; 72.16 E
Posts: 1778
Good Answers: 6
#10
In reply to #5

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/17/2012 5:27 AM

What a fun.

First convert "Y" distribution to "Δ" delta and feed a single Φ to 2 Φs of "Y" to get 220V [Nominal] Φ to Φ and run your motor on 220V calling it running on 2 Φs a single Φ motor.

Why not to have an auto-transformer 400V [nominal] /220V and run your motor on 2Φs. It would be a cheaper way to enjoy a fun.

Sorry! CR4 does not have a negative marking system.

Have a fine time!

__________________
"To pity distress is but human; to relieve it is Godlike." ~:~ Horace Mann ~:~
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 3428
Good Answers: 464
#3

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/15/2012 11:20 PM

By the way,

Phase:

Phage:

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Near the New Madrid Fault. USA
Posts: 241
Good Answers: 1
#12
In reply to #3

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/17/2012 8:15 AM

You must have special personal protection equipment(PPE) to handle T2 Phage but just cloves for 220 single phase...

__________________
It's not Rocket Science
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Petroleum Engineering - Rig Electrician United States - Member - the Oil Patch Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - Drives & Gen's Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - Drive Control Popular Science - Cosmology -

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Houston off/on-shore @ Oil Patch
Posts: 198
Good Answers: 2
#14
In reply to #3

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/17/2012 4:31 PM

Can't believe we're getting so "PC" here that someone gave you an OT for that post. Humor, when it's as good as this, should get GA's too. Oh well, I'll give you a GA for post #2 but if you got GA's for those kind of posts the lumberjack would be at 20%. Keep the humor coming and thanks.

__________________
Why do they make manhole covers round? so they won't fall in [before asking "Who is John Galt?"]
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bahamas
Posts: 1962
Good Answers: 97
#4

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/15/2012 11:25 PM

Yes.

Connect F1 and F2 to your wires and use a capacitor between one of these and the F3 connection of your motor.

This is called the STEINMETZ diagram.

The value of the capacitor is:

C = P.10*6 / (2. pi. f. 0.87. U*n)

C in microFarad

P power in Watts

f frequency in Hertz

U voltage in Volts

n efficiency - unnamed

The power however and starting couple is lower than with 3 phases.

__________________
Atlantis
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Posts: 859
Good Answers: 28
#7

Re: Run Single-Phase Induction Motor In Two Phase

05/16/2012 11:30 PM

Never been to India. Is there such a thing as a wild leg there?

__________________
"Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater". - Albert Einstein
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 414
Good Answers: 19
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Run Single-Phase Induction Motor In Two Phase

05/17/2012 1:21 AM

If primary distribution in India is "Y" connected, there would be no "wild leg". The "wild leg" is a feature of the 4-wire delta connection, a standard arrangement that supplies both 120/240 volt single phase and 240 volt three phase power from the same set of transformers. A four-wire delta circuit provides both single-phase power for lighting and appliances and three-phase power for the 100-year-old organ blower at my church.

Ten years ago unskilled workmen mixed up the connections when they replaced the church's overhead service drops in the course of the Edison Company's regularly scheduled maintenance. This caused the death of at least one piece of office equipment and shortened the life of several dozen light bulbs. Although the high leg-to-neutral potential is nominally 208 volts, my DVM registered 165. It was enough.

Register to Reply
Guru
Pakistan - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pakistan: 33.2N; 72.16 E
Posts: 1778
Good Answers: 6
#11
In reply to #9

Re: Run Single-Phase Induction Motor In Two Phase

05/17/2012 5:30 AM

Regards.

Bharat and Pakistan [even Bangla Desh] have 4wire "Y" distribution RST+N. 220V Φ to N.

__________________
"To pity distress is but human; to relieve it is Godlike." ~:~ Horace Mann ~:~
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 197
Good Answers: 5
#13
In reply to #7

Re: Run Single-Phase Induction Motor In Two Phase

05/17/2012 9:40 AM

I have a "friend" that in the past observed a "wild leg" in India.

As it turned out the root-cause of "wild leg" phenomonon was a female Elvis impersonator and not the "real thing".

However, he did say that the resultant vector was "electrifying" to the crowd and produced a memorable reaction.

Based upon his rendition and his reasoning defining the "cause and affect" of the reaction:

Logically, there must be correlation between distribution and phasing out when in the presence of a "wild leg" phenomonon.

Therefore "wild leg" sightings while rare, are indeed present in India.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 15 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

bubbapebi (1); cherryvan (1); debata07 (1); dvmdsc (1); Haajee (2); JRaef (2); kwcharlie (1); PWSlack (1); RAMAKANTA (1); RDGRNR (1); Rockyscience (1); SHOCKISCAN (1); SolarEagle (1)

Previous in Forum: What is a Good Base Line Temp for Hot Electrical Connections?   Next in Forum: Siprotec Relay Teting