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Participant

Join Date: May 2012
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Suction of Water Vapour From Vermi Compost Extract

05/25/2012 6:54 AM

We are heating the alkali extracted vermi compost in a heat chamber, heated by means of fuel. The vapours generated in the chamber are being pulled by a vaccum pump. The problem faced is back pressure generated in the chamber due to vapours. Pl suggest the solution for the problem. Should we go for the condensar with the receiver or any special vacuum trap system,

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Guru
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#1

Re: Suction of Water Vapour From Vermi Compost Extract

05/25/2012 7:15 AM

By reducing the volume, a vacuum pump causes an increase in both the pressure and the temperature of what is flowing through it. So, to decrease the downstream pressure and take some load off the pump some cooling, either at the pump or downstream of it or indeed both, is of advantage.

<...vacuum trap system,...> Wossat?

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Guru

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#2

Re: Suction of Water Vapour From Vermi Compost Extract

05/25/2012 8:52 AM

Sounds to me that you need a very cold vacuum trap before the vacuum pump. This can consist of a glass tube (ideally with long path length) cooled by either liquid nitrogen (-196 C) or solid carbon dioxide in acetone or isopropanol (about -77 C). The latter is cheaper and easier to obtain. The trap will condense out any volatiles in the vapour, preventing them from contaminating the vacuum pump oil and giving you a much better vacuum i.e. lower pressure. The condensed volatiles remain in the trap until its full. Isolating valves either side enable the trap to be emptied, coolant replenished without destroying the vacuum in the heated chamber.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Suction of Water Vapour From Vermi Compost Extract

05/25/2012 12:13 PM

GA. If OP has access to any nearby air separation plant, liquid nitrogen is the better answer. It will require shorter path length, but I suspect whether glass tube will be suitable, it may require SS tube.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Suction of Water Vapour From Vermi Compost Extract

05/25/2012 1:51 PM

can you elaborate the sequence. We have the problem of low output i.e., due to back pressure, the extraction is low. How to reduce this back pressure? we do not have a condensar and receiver. Do you think it will be required. Present output is just 10%. Product is purely organic, and we do not want to contaminate. Temp of product should be less than 55 deg C and temp of fuel can go upto 80-120Deg C depending on ambience temp.Feeding is uniform. Extraction is upto 90% (water).

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Guru
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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Suction of Water Vapour From Vermi Compost Extract

05/26/2012 1:47 AM

Dear susheeldespande, now you have mentioned that extraction is 90% water (vapor). You have not yet mentioned what is the volume flow rate of extraction. So 90% of total volume handled by vacuum pump is water vapor. Water get mixed with vacuum pump oil and reduce its performance. So it is better to trap it before entering in to vacuum pump, it will solve the back pressure problem also.

I do not recommend liquid nitrogen or dry ice or isopropanol trap for your application as suggested by some members because the volume of water vapor is too high. Installing a heat exchanger along with a moisture trap before the vacuum pump for condensing the water vapor shall be sufficient. Coolant can be water or chilled water if you need more condensing.

Is the vacuum pump outlet is let to atmosphere?

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Suction of Water Vapour From Vermi Compost Extract

05/26/2012 9:08 AM

What kind of vacuum pump do you have?

If it is a rotary vane pump or a piston in cylinder pump running with oil circulation to lubricate it then the water vapour will certainly condense in the oil. Your problem may be more to do with that water evaporating in the expansion chamber, so reducing the sucking effect. The lowest pressure you can develop is the vapor pressure of water at the temperature of the oil - probably over 80°c.

Why are you using a vacuum pump to remove the vapor? Is it to limit the temperature of the compost? A centrifugal pump (like a vacuum cleaner) or dry pump (very expensive) sounds a better bet than any pump with oil in it.

If you use a vapor trap you may well need mechanical refrigeration with a capacity at least equal to the heat input of your composter plus the heat generated in the process. Drawback is that you have to keep empying the trap and if it is freezing the water vapor that includes time to thaw and drain the ice. Remember this trap will pump 90% of your vapor, leaving the vacuum pump to only handle the 10% of non-condensable vapors, therefore the vacuum pump needs a capacity only 10% of total vapor generated and the pipe between the composter and the vapor trap will be some nine times the cross section of the pipe between the trap and the pump. (the vapor trap becomes much more of a pump than the vacuum pump itself.)

Do you want to collect the vapors? If not a centrifugal pump to atmosphere might suffice if it can drop the pressure to what you need. A lot simpler and cheaper to run.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Suction of Water Vapour From Vermi Compost Extract

05/26/2012 11:08 AM

GA to pritam & Ptrend for their exhaustive comments.

Mr. Susheel, after your new information of 90% water, liquid nitrogen trap is not at all suitable. It is only for trace of water for high vacuum applications.

Process you described is not clear.

"Present output is just 10%." What is your output?

"Product is purely organic, and we do not want to contaminate." What kind of contamination you are expecting?

"Temp of product should be less than 55 deg C and temp of fuel can go upto 80-120Deg C. What fuel is used?" How product temp is controlled?

How much vacuum you need to create? What is the capacity of vacuum pump? From vacuum pump where product goes and what is its end use?

Please answer above questions for more useful comments. If you want to use existing vacuum pump which can remove only 10% of vapor generated then follow pritam's suggestion for condenser and trap. But if you don't want to install a condenser and just need removing all the vapor along with water vapor then remove vacuum pump and install a centrifugal fan/blower of 100% capacity as suggested by Ptrend.

Good luck.

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#8

Re: Suction of Water Vapour From Vermi Compost Extract

05/26/2012 3:33 PM

The evolved noncondensable gases from your heated compost can't be extracted by condensing means, so they will accumulate in the chamber. Instead of a few-cfm vacuum pump of the type used for evacuating tanks, better would be a robust blower having high cfm. The purpose of the pump is assisting exhaust to relieve the back pressure. That's a different job than creating low pressure in an empty tank. Instead of thinking about pulling gases out of the chamber, think of how to push them into the atmosphere.

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Users who posted comments:

energyconversion (1); pradeep44 (2); pritam (1); Ptrend (1); PWSlack (1); susheeldeshpande (1); wilmot (1)

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