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Participant

Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1

Solar Panel Battery

06/03/2012 6:26 PM

Hi, I bought 2 BP 50Watts panel ...can you suggest what battery is best fit the panel and what size cables require and what other things should I considered for this unit

cheers

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Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 5506
Good Answers: 272
#1

Re: Solar

06/03/2012 7:34 PM

Depends on what you're going to use them for...?

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Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 5506
Good Answers: 272
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Solar

06/03/2012 8:47 PM

If you just want to experiment, get a marine deep cycle battery...Here on this page linked to are some other components you may find useful...

http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Panel-Value-BP350J-Replacement/dp/B0036Z7MFM

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Guru
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bahamas
Posts: 1962
Good Answers: 97
#3

Re: Solar Panel

06/04/2012 9:20 AM

When your panels are "12 Volts", you can use these to charge 12 V or 24 Volts batteries, the last when you connect these in series.

The panels however, can supply around 17 Volts each (their MPPT) and you need to control the charge to not destroy your battery. For cables, minimal requirements are for 100 Watts/12 volts = ca. 10 ampere.

A MPPT charger gets you more net output, because otherwise the panels will work at the "real" battery voltage -

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Power-User

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 159
Good Answers: 13
#4

Re: Solar Panel Battery

06/04/2012 11:17 PM

The proper cable size is going to be determined by the AMPERAGE, not the wattage or voltage. The amps coming from the panels to the batteries are what you are concerned about. The proper battery size? To a point, bigger is better. What I did to save money was buy a reconditioned fork lift battery for my system. It was 12 individual cells and cost about 500 dollars and weighed 1400 lbs. It could be configured as 12 volt or 24 volt. You could use half of that (six cells) IF you have a 12-volt system. I was using two 205-watt panels though. The reason bigger is better (to a point) is better efficiency on the part of the battery. I experimented with golf cart batteries but quickly realized it was going to take a lot of golf cart batteries for what I was doing. I purchased six of them. If you choose to use small batteries, the six-volt golf cart batteries give you more bang for the buck and they last about 20% longer than the 12-volt marine deep cycle batteries. I was engineering an off-the-grid system. What you want to do is keep the batteries as close to the panels as possible, and keep the batteries WARM. Cold lead-acid batteries don't work so great. This will save you money on expensive cables because a system like mine, being 12-volt, required basically welding cables. I made it 12 volts so I could run 12 volt gadgetry of which there is a plethora. Harder to find 24-volt gadgetry. If you keep the panels and batteries together and your inverter near the battery compartment, you can use mostly 120-volt wiring which is way cheaper because the current involved in 120-volt power is way less. Remember Watts is a unit of power, amperage measures the actual flow of electrical current, and voltage is the PRESSURE that moves the current through the wire. Watts (power) equals volts times amps. so, to save on cable costs, use higher voltage if you can. When dealing with low voltage cabling, a longer run of cabling will be more expensive because it will also need to be thicker (so thicker AND longer) to keep from dropping your voltage in the line. The formula for power lost in the cabling is amps times amps (amps squared) times resistance, also known as I-squared-R where I is the current in amperes and R is the resistance in ohms. smaller power system like yours, you could probably get away with what I did, get some fat cheap battery cables from Wal-Mart. Get the FAT ones. Don't skimp. It proved to be pretty cost effective. Welding supply shops for the fatter cables if you need them, and even Home Depot carries some semi-fat cables, but they are difficult to work with, not as finely stranded and not very flexible. I would suggest you look online and peruse some cabling charts to get an idea of the nomenclature and what size cable YOU require for your app.

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Participant

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4
#5

Re: Solar Panel Battery

06/05/2012 12:45 AM

Good Question! Long Answer for this one!

if you have 50 watts or 500watts the ability to charge a battery is simply TIME. Once a battery is charged you have many options within the capacity of the battery.

First think about how you will use your stored energy or better yet, what are you planing on running with the battery. Basically your loads or uses for the electricity tells you how big a battery you want to charge. For the most part golf cart batteries are vary good for their price, should last many years. Your typical automotive or marine battery is designed to start engines not run things for a LONG time.

As for loads they will let you know how fast your battery is run-down and your input watts from any charge source let's you know how fast your battery is charged.

I am using solar and wind to charge 48vdc forklift lead acid batteries. We do shallow discharges @ 15%. The intent is to have many cycles over many years. Their are some other charging called equalize and pulsed charging but that is kind of long winded.

I hope this helps!

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Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 24°19'25"E 59°17'35"N
Posts: 336
#6

Re: Solar Panel Battery

06/05/2012 4:23 PM

well i brought that http://www.gpbatteries.com/solar/SA_spec.pdf crap 2 C if it does anything or i have to dismount the solar cell and try to find a use for - - well it charges 2 x AAA or AA NiMH-s in 2 to 4 days (4h of afternoon sun at 60°North) t.m. the product is pretty usable . . . so

i gess the cost-back comes from me not buying the non-rechargables not so much from using solar power

so it's what power you replace with solar (it's likely pointless to run your washing machine from solar cells - at least as long as you have cheap night time "Electric Company Power" in hand)

http://www.hot.ee/rjc/files/CR4/PICT7600mfd.jpg -- no much time/need for the alternate NRG subject

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Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 24°19'25"E 59°17'35"N
Posts: 336
#7

Re: Solar Panel Battery

06/05/2012 4:32 PM

so don't just build "something" - all exited of your new toy
i suggest it's worth to pay people already experienced in
the field to set up something (that has been proven worth of)

by the way for 2-nd pair of calculator solar cells i had to
re-create and reweld the (+)(-) terminal outs (primary came off
when i tested the strength of welding - confirmed weather it secured)
<< this is for indoor conditions

you likely want to take special care of the terminals area
(just as you do for your car battery) + what i cant tell you but the specialists can

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Power-User

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 159
Good Answers: 13
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Solar Panel Battery

06/05/2012 4:43 PM

I am going to disagree heartily. If the poster has anything remotely resembling a brain and handyman skills, all the experts are going to do is financially rape him and it will not be a pleasant experience. Off grid battery power is invariably lead acid. The costs of lead acid flooded cells are way lower than any other technology. To protect terminals from corrosion you can simply use the same methods and "tricks" used with car batteries and forklift batteries. I smeared Vaseline all over mine and never had a problem. it's cheap and just as effective as the more expensive solutions. If you insist on spending more money, go to Auto Zone or equivalent and buy the spray can and seal 'em up with that. The fact is, you can and probably should do this yourself. After the "experts" are done with you, it will be up to you to make any future changes and/or repairs. I checked the costs repeatedly of using the so-called experts. You are better off just building an overkill system (more panels and more batteries) than spending that same money on experts. You can get four times (or more) the system if you do it yourself. I took electrical engineering, both electronics and power generation/distribution. All you need to know I learned in the first few weeks of school. If you feel you need an education, the Navy NEETS modules are available online in pdf and they are FREE. They are designed for a person to learn the material on their own without an instructor.

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Participant

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Solar Panel Battery

07/10/2012 9:26 AM

Hi Jerrys,

Can you explain more about the effect of battery internal resistance? As for forklift traction battery, i understand the internal resistance is relatively higher. Does this mean it take longer time to charge higher internal resistance battery vs lower internal resistance battery? Or have to increase solar panel in order to get it full charge in time? I'm looking into using optima battery which they have lower internal resistance (like around 0.0025ohm) per battery.

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Power-User

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 159
Good Answers: 13
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Solar Panel Battery

07/10/2012 12:23 PM

I'll start by saying i would not spend my money on an expensive brand of battery. Seen lots of advertising hype and I'm suspicious. Optima may be a great brand or even the best, but in a solar system you need amp-hours and lots of them. You are better off with spending the money on Napa's big L16 batteries. The low internal resistance which car batteries have is very nice when you are starting an engine, a LARGE, INTERMITTENT load. In a solar application, it doesn't matter. You aren't doing huge intermittent loads, you are doing small(er) more continuous drains. Hence the need for deep cycle batteries. Anyway, the math is fairly simple if you only want an approximation. In reality, the internal resistance is not a constant. If you connect a small load to your battery, the output voltage will drop a little because of battery internal resistance. A larger load you will notice. If you battery bank is wimpy, it WILL drop below the low voltage cutoff level of your inverter and your inverter will go offline. (THIS IS WHY you need a big battery bank for solar systems. In an automobile, the alternator is doing everything after the engine starts. It's only for starting the engine.) Now, you'll go to check your battery, and it will be fine because NOW THERE IS NO LOAD!! If it's a 12 volt battery, it's going to be 12.8 volts x internal resistance. The internal resistance is not a constant and, in reality, if you graph battery voltage versus load with battery voltage on the y axis, it will arc downward as load increases. Kirchoff's voltage law explains this pretty clearly. All of the voltage "consumed" by each device in the circuit must add up to the battery voltage. That battery is both a source of voltage and a load because of internal resistance. The voltage consumption due to internal resistance must also be counted in the calculations. I can't emphasize this enough, a solar power application is going to take more battery power than you think. Forget small batteries. It really doesn't take much in the way of discharge for a sudden surge to trip off your inverter due to low voltage. Your batteries total output from a fully charged state will depend on how QUICKLY you discharge them. Check battery ratings, they'll be for two different time periods. Say you get two hours at 100 amp -hours. Thats 200 amp hours. Now lets say you discharge at only 10 amp-hours. will you get 20 hours? No, you will get much more than 20 hours. Look into this. A GOOD battery vendor or manufacturer of quality deep cycle batteries will put this info out there.

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