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13 comments
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12

Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/17/2012 7:02 PM

I have an old motor and the starter relay coil is bad. Can i purchase only a coil? The motor is a 240v single phase start/run induction motor. The old relay is an Essex RBM C27B 128126-1132TB. I cannot find this online. It has three connections. One connection to the starter capacitor and one to the run capacitor and one to the motor start windings. It operates normally closed and will not open. The coil of the relay has a resistance measurement across its leads of 3500 ohms (I think bad). Since I cannot find the relay I have two options. Does anyone know of a replacement relay or does anyone know where i can buy a replacement coil for the relay? Please help.

I am also needing advice on a replacement thermal switch. The old switch is Klixon Type LEH 33KB F2A. Not made any more. The max temperature on the motor is 40C.

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Pathfinder Tags: Induction Relay thermal switch
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#1

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/17/2012 10:03 PM

This universal potential relay will work, you'll need to rewire your starting circuit for the motor, but the wiring diagram is right on the relay....

APR5 UNIVERSAL POTENTIAL RELAYS

http://www.supco.com/images/09%20relay%20&%20hardstarts.pdf

adjustable thermal overload....

http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/fujimcor.pdf

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#2

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 1:30 AM

You can use a voltimetric relay , used on windos aircondition , old fashioned.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 9:10 AM

If i cannot find a relay can i use a 240 breaker to switch the start winding manually?

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 9:47 AM

No. It has to switch at the correct time. That correct timing is accomplished either by the back emf off of the motor or a centrifugal switch the works on speed.

The extent of necessary repairs here indicates to me hat this motor is not worth saving. In other words if the klixon is bad and the voltage relay or centrifugal switch is bad and the contactor coil is bad then maybe there is a really good reason that you will only discover AFTER having spent the time and money to replace all of those secondary failures.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 9:53 AM

The potential or start relay is used to remove the start capacitors from the circuit once the motor achieves 75% speed, if memory serves...You could use a manually controlled contactor for this purpose...but I wouldn't recommend it....It is only a momentary(like .5 sec) contact, left energized for too long and you risk catastrophic failure of the start capacitors, which can explode, or catch fire, or both....As we go on here with this old motor and your efforts, it has become quite clear you are not qualified in any way to be attempting the project you have undertaken...I suggest you get help from a qualified electrician before you injure yourself or some innocent bystander....

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 10:47 AM

Thanks for your thougts but i think your arrogance is more damaging than anything. The systems involved here are not so complex a person cannot learn with a little help which i thought this forum was. Some have really helped direct me you have not. I met with a friend this morning who is an hvac contractor. He gave me a relay with capacitor that he thought might be what i needed. It matched a recommendation from someone on this forum. I will try it knowing the start wiring will be different. Someone like you could probably help in that determination but obviously you do not have the time.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 10:57 AM

Let's see...SolarEagle with over 3,000 posts and over 130 GA experience...plus the fact that he is most likely a true engineer...VS...9 posts and more arrogance than you can shake a stick at...hmmm

An engineers forum is not a DIY site and you are not talking to your friendly neighborhood Ace Hardware counterman here. If you brought actual specs and methodology to the site and wanted to discuss the pros and cons of motor start methods and practices and not expect a solution to your problem in whole...maybe you would get a better reception.

You're lucky that LynDoor Enterprises isn't on the case!

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 11:28 AM

Sorry for invading the privacy of your engineering forum with a real world application. I will seek my information in other places. Just one question. What is engineering if not the gaining of knowledge about a problem in order to derive a solution? Sounds like diy. I know and work with many engineers who are great in applying their craft to everyday applications. They are also great resour es to assist in those problems. Engineering is a great field to pursue. I guess that is what motivated me to pursue it with four degrees. Just not electrical. That is why i came to you. Thanks for you help.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 11:10 AM

I have nothing but time, and a lifetime of experience...Have you ever seen a start capacitor explode? I caution you because it is my duty and moral obligation...The fact that you respond with a slap in the face of someone concerned for your safety, is in fact an act of arrogance and immaturity...There are some things that are not well suited to be learned over the internet, working with high voltage is one of those things....

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#10

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 1:40 PM

Maybe you are disappointed with some answer , but mine was correct , but not complete.

I handle A/C since 1970 , and the potential start relay do it in the best way .

Look at this: APR5 UNIVERSAL POTENTIAL RELAYS

It work as a normally closed contact relay , until the tension is enough to open an keep out the starting capacitor . for A/C we usually fit a 90/100 mFarad rated at 440 V , since we use here 220 AC .

A thermal overload "KLICSON" is used at the Common connector to avoid overload current if the motor do no start, it work by thermic load on a bimetal , so you must wait until it reclosed itself.

As a A/C repairman I used to have a starting panel with the Potential or Voltimetric Relay , suited with a sort of Run capacitor , and only the 90/110 mF Start Capacitor ,

Then I pick out all wire from de connection box , and connect my STARTING PANEL wires , to know if problem is with the Motor , or the related circuitry .

Also you can check the motor , without any load , or free axle , connecting Hot to the COMMON convector , neutral to the RUN connector , and a normally open contact to the TART connector., ALL WITH A PREVIOUS BIPOLAR THERMIC MAGNECTIC SWITCH RATED according with the motor, usually 25 Amp for 220 Volt

To know which one each connector is , you have to mark the end wires from the motor Sure you have only 3 wires , so mark A B C , read with a ohmmeter between each pair

maybe you can get , just a sample

A-B 10 Ohm

B-C 50 Ohm

and

A-C 60 Ohm ,

hence

A-B is the RUN coil

B-C is the STARTING Coil

so the B is the connector to Common

A the RUN connector

C the START connector

Or if you have 4 wire , you can only measure 2 pair , AB , and CD the one with higher OHMS is the STARTING coil

Hope you understand it , apologize my poor English .

Feel free to contact me to myusernamehere-at-gmail.com

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 2:18 PM

Your answer is exactly the one i am following. I have a friend in th ac business and without sharing your recommendation he recommended the same part and even gave me one. A good friend indeed. Thank you for your help.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 3:05 PM

Thanks for the help. The motor has 5 wires. T1, T4, T5, T17, and T18. T17 was connected to the start relay that has gone bad. T1 and T4 to one hot leg, T5 and T8 (wire coming from Run capacitor) to the other hot leg, T18 to run capacitor. The two run capacitors are in parallel, and the two start capacitors are in parallel. There was a lead from the start capacitor to the start relay and a lead from the run capacitor to the start relay. The relay/capacitor given to me has two leads on it. Can you help in how it should be connected? I assume one lead to T17 (which is start winding), and the other lead to the run capacitor? Can you help with this.

I understand the approach to determining the run and start capacitors. The start winding is of smaller wire which has the larger resistance.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Need a Relay Coil and Thermal Switch

06/18/2012 4:17 PM

Please upload or send me photo or scheme

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