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Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 12:46 AM

Hi< I have made this request earlier but unfortunately the response was not as positive as i have thought or maybe it was my earlier technical input was not fully understood.

We have a 2.5 Litre 4 cylinder Twin cam Euro 3 & 4 engines manufactured by VM Motori in Italy. These engines are fitted into LDV vehicles & are used as Ambulance & Mini Bus.

VM Motori will not re-invent the wheel as they are already using Euro 5 & Soon Euro 6 Software.

Micro Dynamics - New Tronic & Lumention are for Petrol Driven Engines Only.

EconoSpeed is not effective.

I require a Rev Limiter that will Hold the Revs Limitations to 3,800 Maximum through the gear changes.

I hope someone out there can assist.

David.

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#1

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 1:28 AM

Dave

From where are you and who are the culprits?

Does the engines have enough power for the application?

An ambulance or a mini bus taxi with insufficient power will be hammered in a lower gear to get it moving.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 2:33 AM

Hi,

Yes we have 120 HP & 300 NM of Torque this is not the problem, the Drivers Right Foot & "Brain" is the problem.

We have been importing & Assembling these vehicles for 6 years.

I am working in Malaysia.

Tq.

Dave.

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#3

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 8:52 AM

Is this engine diesel, LP, propane or gasoline? Do you require a pre made device, or are you capable of assembling components and fitting to the engine?

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#4

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 9:20 AM

Should not be a matter of re-inventing the wheel but rather adding a step in the ECM module programming.

Why not contact VM Motori and request that when they program the engine ECM, that they add a step in the program to limit the RPM's to your specifications.

Concept is;

IF: RPM >3,800

THEN: Fuel Solenoid "Off/Closed"

Another approach, ask VM if they have an RPM limiting chip available for the ECM.

Could also try an after market firm that may be able to come up with a chip or programming solution.

Spent part of this summer at the Caterpillar Plant in Joliet IL. on the engine test stand line and saw this and other custom configurations made on an engine by engine basis to the ECM programming based on individual customer spec's.

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#13
In reply to #4

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 10:18 PM

Hi, VM Motori will not go back 2 generations & re-write programs for 1,000 units only.

But if they did i am sure it would be at a high cost.

This is why i have tried 3 other aftermarket kit companies, most catagorise the rev limit way above our 3,800 RPM & are petrol Not Diesel.

Hence the forum for assistance in locating a usable after market Kit.

Tq.

Dave.

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#5

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 10:24 AM

If I follow the information from VM Motori, the engine uses a Bosch injection pump. The speed control of the injector pump should be adjustable. The 4 cylinder engines that I see on the engine company site show a 3000 rpm limit. If you are attempting to run an engine that has a 3000 RPM limit at 3800, damage is almost sure to follow. But, if the engine that you have is designed to rev higher than 3800, and you want to lower the maximum speed, than the injector pump adjustment should be easy to accomplish. If adjusting the injector pump is not something that you choose to do, any injector repair facility should be able to handle the adjustment for you at a nominal cost if you bring the injector pumps to them. Perhaps some more details of the engine design might help.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 11:29 AM

Nice find, simple solution - GA!

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 1:51 PM

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Can I now trade in my guru status for smart a$$.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 1:09 PM

Agreed, that is sound advice.

I am pleased to vote GA, thus making you a centurian centurion a hunnerd GAs. Well done!

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 1:51 PM

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Can I now trade in my guru status for smart a$$.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 2:18 PM

I hear that KrisDel Corp. is handing out certificimacates with sparklies for every hunnerd GA votes a guy gets.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 2:49 PM

I tried, they won't let me vote for myself. Not even once.

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#12
In reply to #5

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 10:10 PM

Hi Bob,

The injector pump is a Bosch CP3 Non adjustable.

injectors are Bosch CRIP 1. Non adjustable.

Fuel pressure in the Common rail runs at 1,600 Bar.

Driven Engine maximum rev is 3,800. & 4,400 stationary.

We have nearlt 1,000 units all capable of being over revved & driven by many inconsiderate drivers.

VM Motori Do not make an add on Rev limiter for this ECM.

This is why a require an after market Limiter Kit.

Tq.

David.

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#16
In reply to #12

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/27/2012 10:24 AM

Now that I have more information, I will dig deeper. In theory, you could adapt an aftermarket ignition system controller. use the built in rev limiter to shut off the fuel at the injector pump solenoid (as the ignition switch you have now does). The question I have now is does the ignition coil need to be in the circuit to have the rev limiter work properly? I am waiting for an answer from MSD.

"Driven Engine maximum rev is 3,800. & 4,400 stationary."

What is the difference in the two engines here? Could you convert to the driven engine injector pump, or convert to the driven engines for future use?

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#14

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/26/2012 11:24 PM

You could use an aftermarket revlimiter for a gasoline engine and set it up to cut the fuel solenoid instead of ignition.

Obtaining an engine speed input might be a challenge.

Are your vehicles equipped with a tacho?

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#15

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/27/2012 4:48 AM

You need someone who can program PICs, you also need a sensor to note when the cylinder one gets injected, a simple sensor can be made from a piezo sounder, working in reverse, clamped to the pipe going to the injector.

Some simple amplification and filtering (the PIC could be programmed to filter as well) may be required to get a reasonable signal form. Then program to allow up to a frequency of up to 3800/2=1900Hz. Then it disables the injector pump solenoid, which stops diesel being fed to it......

Decide on how much hysteresis you need, I would suggest minimal as you don't want the vehicle suddenly slowing down each time the rev limit is reached as that may cause an accident. You just want it to stop accelerating.....

I hope this helps.

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#18
In reply to #15

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/27/2012 10:58 AM

ERROR!

I forgot to divide by 60 as well. My bad!!!

3800/2=1900/60 = 31.667Hz.

My apologies to all......

Even the slowest of PICs should be OK for this, even the ones using a BASIC interpreter....easy programming too....

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#17

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/27/2012 10:31 AM

Since engine RPM can be directly proportioned to the available fuel pressure, Is it not easier to just install a pressure pop-off or relief valve after the fuel pump, calibrated to open up and reduce fuel pressure at or near the equivalent engine revolution of 3800 RPM?

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#19

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/28/2012 2:09 AM

With a little trial and error you could just put a block of wood under the accelerator that keeps it from revving any higher than what you want.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/28/2012 10:07 PM

Perhaps you could use a little knowledge into the workings of firefighters.

The rules don't apply to them.

Seat belts are not needed because they might have to get out in a hurry.

They are permitted to go around corners faster than the laws of physics allow because they are in a hurry.

That governor is not meant for them, because they need more speed.

A simple block of wood would be removed before the garage door is shut/

In fire mechanics school many years ago I was told this story. If you locked a firefighter in a room with 2 ball bearings, they would break one, loose one, and blame the other shift for what happened.

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#21

Re: Engine Rev Limiter

07/28/2012 10:35 PM

There are some OK diesel mechanics in Malaysia.

Have you asked around locally yet?

Otherwise on your next sanity trip go to Bangkok. Diesel is king in Thailand and there are really good diesel technicians accustomed to bespoke modifications over there.

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