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Participant

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3

Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/09/2012 4:34 PM

Hello everyone. I found this forum while searching for concrete foundation information, and it seems to be a good place to ask for advice. Searches of the forum have not yielded examples directly applicable to this situation.

I plan to hire a contractor to build a foundation for a mausoleum and would like to understand enough to give proposals a sanity check. I'm an EE but have little knowledge of concrete foundations.

Here's what I know:

Foundation:

Needs to be solid and stable for a long time (decades?, centuries?)

Top-view dimensions are 9'10" long x 8'0" wide

Top-view drain pit dimensions are 4'0" x 1'0"

Drain pit's 4' dimension is centered in foundation's 8' width

Drain pit's 1' dimension is 1'2" from one end of foundation's 9'10" length

Sides should rise at least ~6" above grade on all sides

Top should be flat and level

Mausoleum:

Material is granite

Weight is ~16,000 pounds

Base dimensions are 8'10" long x 7'0" wide x 6" thick

Height is 3'5"

Site:

Location is western Kentucky

Frost depth is 24" per Kentucky's 2007 Residential Code

Type of soil is unknown, most land in this area is used for farming

Appears soil has not been recently disturbed or filled

Grade rolls off about 6" over length of foundation

Low seismic activity

Tornados are a possibility

One proposal specified:

4000 psi concrete

1' thick "turn-down" walls around the perimeter

"turn-down" walls extend 24" below grade

"turn-down" walls have 2 horzontal rows of #5 rebar

one 6" from bottom, one 1'6" from bottom

8" thick top (slab)

Top slab has #5 rebar 12" O.C. with ends bending and

extending ~2' down "turn-down" walls

Minimum 4" of rock under slab

All concrete poured at same time

Does this sound adequate?

Assuming all the weight is supported by the walls, there would be 16,000 lbs. on 31.67 square feet, or 505 pounds/square foot. The lowest soil load-bearing value in Kentucky's 2007 Residential Code is 1500 pounds/square foot. This would be a 3/1 safety margin, even ignoring weight born by the slab. Is this thinking correct?

Sorry for the long post... I wanted to give as much information as possible.

Thanks in advance for you help.

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Guru

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#1

Re: Need advice on concrete mausoleum foundation

08/09/2012 4:49 PM

The only comment I have is that I like the stone to continue down the sloped inside of the turn down. I think I have used welded wire fabric instead of rebar for this type of usage.

On further look, the drain pit looks too near the end and will interfere with the top of the turn down. The pit slightly increases the spacing of the reinforcing but not significantly.

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#2

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/09/2012 11:59 PM

Does this sound adequate?

Sounds excessive to me. I's not like it will kill the occupants if it falls down...

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#3

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 12:45 AM

Did you include the weight of the concrete in your loading calculations? I'd go down three feet on the perimeter foundation, and use epoxy rebar. You're thinking eternity, or until Jesus returns, right?

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#4

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 1:13 AM
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#5

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 4:53 AM

If u want the. structure last long u have to lay foundation on reliable soil only. the agriculture soil is not good to lay fiundation. U have to remove the soil and go upto the murrum or stone type material. If the soil is too dip as in case of river delta areas we have to go minimum 4 feet dip. this will help u i think. pravin

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#6

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 6:03 AM

I'm going to assume this isn't the first Mausoleum built in this county.

You would probably be much better off to find out who built other Mausoleums in the area and contact them. I'm sure there are many regulations out of the ordinary for grave sites that you will have to deal with. Someone with experience with this type of construction for your area would know all the regulations and specifications required.

It sounds like it would also be prudent to get in contact with a soils engineer.

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#7

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 8:16 AM

Sounds more like a Bomb Shelter than Mausoleum.

Yes, without seeing any drawings it seems that it is more than adequate and should last a long time.

If the soil conditions are unknown, then I would use at least a minimum 12-inch compacted thickness of crusher run gravel subbase material under the foundation, compacted to at least 98% Modified Proctor Density.

You should really specify the concrete design parameters, as this is probably the weakest link in the quality of the mausoleum construction. Also, to ensure quality assurance during the concrete placement and finishing, an independent testing agency should be present to test the concrete......that's if the mausoleum owner(s) have money to burn, and this seems to be the case.

Is this mausoleum to be located on a private parcel or an established cemetery?

Also, why is an EE involved with the design of this mausoleum and not a Civil Engineer/Structural Engineer? Just curious.....family, or family friend?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 8:51 AM

why is an EE involved with the design of this mausoleum and not a Civil Engineer/Structural Engineer?

OP explained that he wanted to be an informed consumer in his opening paragraphs.

If you mean "how" he got involved then yeh, kinda curious.

It could even be a variation on a lighting job...all the power to him if it is.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 8:59 AM

Maybe he got involved because the owner of this mausoleum wants "lightning rods", a big screen LCD/HD TV, and pulse doppler radar (for detecting twisters and severe thunderboomers) installed......

Nah, just kidding!

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 9:03 AM

The Mausoleum is the gateway to his client's lair....

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#11

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 10:39 AM

I see that my original post wasn't clear... this is a personal project for me and my wife.

passingtongreen wrote: "the drain pit looks too near the end and will interfere with the top of the turn down". I'll check with the mausoleum builder, but I don't think it can be moved. Assuming it can't, should anything special be done (e.g. more rebar)?

ormondotvos: I didn't include the weight of the concrete! Thanks for catching that. I'll adjust that calculation. You wrote: "You're thinking eternity, or until Jesus returns, right?". Right! I guess historically, burial sites have eventually turned into archaeological sites I'm not familiar with epoxy rebar; what are its advantages/disadvantages?

Wal: This is a very small community cemetery, and it has only a few simple rules. None of them address foundations for headstones or mausoleums.

pravindhameliya: Although most of the land in this area is used for farming, the cemetery land has been used for that purpose since at least the 1950's.

CaptMoosie: There is definitely not money to burn. In fact, I'm trying to save money by buying the mausoleum more directly than through a local memorial company (their mark-up is excessive). As a result, I need to contract the foundation work myself. I'm not wanting to design it; I just want to have a comfort level that the contractor is getting it right. I haven't found any contractor that has actually build a foundation for a mausoleum before. They seem to be pretty rare in the area. Most of them build house foundations, basement walls, some commercial/industrial work. I'm would like to avoid the cost of soil testing if possible. The few engineering companies in the area seems to specialize in big industrial/government projects. I'm not sure they would even be interested in a little project like this. BTW, only the foundation is concrete; the mausoleum is granite.

From the comments so far, it sounds like that one proposal is not unreasonable. I'll question the contractors about soil conditions and subbase prep.

Thanks everyone for the comments.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 11:22 AM

Kentucky is home to some of the finest monument builders in the nation. If their price seems "excessive", it may be be because these professionals are worth it. Are engineers professionals? Is their service worth what they charge? Everyone needs to make a living and spending money locally helps us all. If you want the job done correctly, hire a reputable monument builder. How to tell? Look for a member of Monument Builders of North America.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 3:10 PM

You could contact a precaster in your area and have them manufacture a crypt with integral reinforced concrete walls and floor slab. Swing off the delivery truck directly onto the prepared compacted gravel subbase. They could also make a precast reinforced concrete top to drop onto the base unit, with butyl rope installed in the joint all around for water tightness. A qualified stonemason could arrive later to install the stone along the perimeter wall. It'll save money and time. Piece of Cake!

This is what we did for burial crypts installed in the VA's Saratoga National Cemetery (now the Sen. Gerald Soloman National Cemetery (Phase I) about 12 years ago....I was the Chief Design Engineer on that project.

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#14

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 3:26 PM

Most cemeteries require a minimum 4 ft reinforced concrete foundation...

Found this...

http://www.greatmausoleums.com/mausoleum-construction.html

http://private.mausoleum.com/

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/11/2012 12:46 AM

The question I raised in #4 still stands...

Why? so thick

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#15

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 3:31 PM

Here's some closeup aerials of the Saratoga National Cemetery showing the Columnbariums (for interment of Vet's urns) in Phase I Construction + a crypt area under construction. Everything you see aboveground and underground is constructed of precast reinforced concrete. The aboveground sections of the Columnbariums are lined with stone, secured to the concrete with anchoring tabs. The face of each Columnbarium has an attached stone plaque with the name of the Vet and the name of a spouse's (if applicable), the service branch, rank at separation from the service, conflict(s), dates, and recorded decorations.

Columnbariums:

Crypts (in "Pods") and Columnbariums under construction:

Columnbariums after construction (crypts are buried):

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#16

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

08/10/2012 11:03 PM

Just a suggestion:

http://www.cremationsolutions.com/Personal-Cremation-Urns-for-ashes-c109.html

I don't work for the company, nor can I vouch for what goes on inside that head.

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#18

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

11/22/2012 2:16 AM

You need a footing below the frost line. Generally speaking I use thirty inches wide at a dept of 36 inches with a thickness equal to the thickness of the foundation for one story buildings here in Missouri. Calculate your footing width using your gross weight to achieve your required PSI number. If in doubt Make your footing at least 36 inches wide and eight inches thick.

Epoxy rebar is rebar coated in epoxy to resist corrosion (the green stuff you see being used in overpasses etc). I plan on using it myself. It's probably overkill but it can't hurt.

I am interested in a mausoleum to be built on our family cemetery.

I would appreciate an update as you proceed with your project.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

11/27/2012 12:27 PM

The project is complete. The foundation was built per the proposal described in my original posting. The contractor did an excellent job.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

11/27/2012 10:56 PM

I'm glad to hear it worked out for you.

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: Need Advice on Concrete Mausoleum Foundation

11/29/2012 1:47 AM

That's good news mate.

I hope you have to wait a really, really long time before you need it.

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Users who posted comments:

CaptMoosie (4); Donc314 (2); ElectronicsGuy (2); kramarat (1); ormondotvos (1); passingtongreen (1); pravindhameliya (1); rockshop (1); scotchdrnkr (1); SolarEagle (1); Wal (6)

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